In reference to you question about Ana de La Mota being of Jewish
origin.....I found a book on Google, "Conquest" by Hugh Thomas, that makes
reference to Geronimo Ruiz de la Mota as being from a Converso family. That
is all I can tell you. Ana and Diego are in my family tree, I don't recall
coming across any other reference to Conversos.

-Angelina Markle-

I havent heard this before! I always seen the Padillas as españoles, who is Gerónimo Ruiz de la Mota? Ana's father? -Daniel

To Daniel: re: Geronimo Ruiz de la Mota

Geronimo Ruiz de la Mota came from Burgos - he was one of Cortez's
captains. I believe he founded Chapa de Mota - anyway I have no idea
if he is in any way related to Ana de la Mota who married Diego
Padilla. I've followed the Padilla line but haven't pursued the Mota
line yet.

My comment was simply that this was the only time I've came across the
title of "converso" put on any Mota family.

-Angelina-

Hello Daniel, is good to ear something of you. were you in vacation? I send you some question weeks ago but I didn´t received answer.
I have some question for you or anyone, that can help me, I was making some investigation and, I found that my GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGM for my father side was Lorenza De Ruiz Esparza, how was daughter of Lope II Ruiz, Señor De Esparza, and Ana Francisca Navarro De Gabay.
The interesting thing is that Ana Francisca is daughter of Martin Navarro De Gabay and Petronila de Moctezuma who was born in Nochistlan, Zac. about 1550. Do you know if this Petronila have some relation with Moctezuma II?

Best regards
Cristobal Villalobos
-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com [mailto:research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com] En nombre de mendezdelcamino
Enviado el: Domingo, 12 de Octubre de 2008 05:20 a.m.
Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Converso

I havent heard this before! I always seen the Padillas as españoles, who is Gerónimo Ruiz de la Mota? Ana's father? -Daniel

Cristobal,

Who is this Martin Navarro who married Petronilla Moctezuma and what time period are we talking about?

Thanks,

Esther
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from : --------------

Hello Daniel, is good to ear something of you. were you in vacation? I send you
> some question weeks ago but I didn´t received answer. I have some question for you or anyone, that can help me, I was making some investigation and, I found that my GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGM for my father side was Lorenza De Ruiz Esparza, how was daughter of Lope II Ruiz, Señor De Esparza,
> and Ana Francisca Navarro De Gabay. The interesting thing is that Ana Francisca is daughter of Martin Navarro De Gabay and Petronila de Moctezuma who was born in Nochistlan, Zac. about 1550. Do
> you know if this Petronila have some relation with Moctezuma II?
>
> Best regards
> Cristobal Villalobos
> -----Mensaje original----- De: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com
> [mailto:research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com] En nombre de mendezdelcamino
> Enviado el: Domingo, 12 de Octubre de 2008 05:20 a.m.
> Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Converso
>
>
> I havent heard this before! I always seen the Padillas as españoles, who is
> Gerónimo Ruiz de la Mota? Ana's father? -Daniel

Esther,
The information that I have, is that Martin Navarro De Gabay "Hidalgo Español", that was born in Pamplona, Navarra, Spain about 1550.They had 4 sons; Ana Francisca Navarro De Gabay(1570, wife of Lope II Ruiz, Señor de Esparaza, married in 1595 en Nochistlan), Maria Gabay De Moctezuma( about 1580), Cristobal Navarro De Gabay (About 1580), and Juana Navarro De Gabay(about 1585)
And Petronila De Moctezuma have the aditional title "Princesa Imperial De México"
That is all the information that I have.
Best regards
Cristobal Villalobos

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com [mailto:research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com] En nombre de eaherold@att.net
Enviado el: Domingo, 12 de Octubre de 2008 07:48 p.m.
Para: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Martin Navarro

Cristobal,

Who is this Martin Navarro who married Petronilla Moctezuma and what time period are we talking about?

Thanks,

Esther
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from : --------------

Hello Daniel, is good to ear something of you. were you in vacation? I send you
> some question weeks ago but I didn´t received answer. I have some question for you or anyone, that can help me, I was making some investigation and, I found that my GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGM for my father side was Lorenza De Ruiz Esparza, how was daughter of Lope II Ruiz, Señor De Esparza,
> and Ana Francisca Navarro De Gabay. The interesting thing is that Ana Francisca is daughter of Martin Navarro De Gabay and Petronila de Moctezuma who was born in Nochistlan, Zac. about 1550. Do
> you know if this Petronila have some relation with Moctezuma II?
>
> Best regards
> Cristobal Villalobos
> -----Mensaje original----- De: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com
> [mailto:research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com] En nombre de mendezdelcamino
> Enviado el: Domingo, 12 de Octubre de 2008 05:20 a.m.
> Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Converso
>
>
> I havent heard this before! I always seen the Padillas as españoles, who is
> Gerónimo Ruiz de la Mota? Ana's father? -Daniel

Hi Cristobal,
 
I too have the Moctezuma connection.  A few of us on Nuestros Ranchos do :-)
 
Petronila was Leonor Moctezuma (b abt 1525 Mexico City) and Diego Arias de Sotelo's (b abt 1518 Spain; m abt 1539) daughter.  Leonor was Isabel (Ichcaxochitl) Moctezuma (b 6/11/1509 Mexico; d 12/9/1550) and Hernan Cortez's (b 1485; d 12/2/1547) daughter.  Isabel was Motecuhzoma Xocoyotzin (b 1466; d 6/30/1520) and Tecalco's (DOB unk) daughter... so yes, there is not only a connection to Moctezuma but also Hernan Cortez.  Google the story, it is very interesting.
 
Saludos primo!

Cristobal,
  Can you tell me which is the actual source for the description of Martin Navarro de Gabay as "Hidalgo Español"  from Pamplona and for Petronila de Moctezuma as "Princesa Imperial de México"? Do you or anyone in the group has seen a copy of their marriage record?

Thanks

Jaime

----- Original Message -----
From: jcvillalo@prodigy.net.mx
To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 8:50:53 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Martin Navarro

Esther,
The information that I have, is that Martin Navarro De Gabay "Hidalgo Español", that was born in Pamplona, Navarra, Spain about 1550.They had 4 sons; Ana Francisca Navarro De Gabay(1570, wife of Lope II Ruiz, Señor de Esparaza, married in 1595 en Nochistlan), Maria Gabay De Moctezuma( about 1580), Cristobal Navarro De Gabay (About 1580), and Juana Navarro De Gabay(about 1585)
And  Petronila De Moctezuma have the aditional title "Princesa Imperial De México"
That is all the information that I have.
Best regards
Cristobal Villalobos

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com [mailto:research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com] En nombre de eaherold@att.net
Enviado el: Domingo, 12 de Octubre de 2008 07:48 p.m.
Para: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Martin Navarro

Cristobal,

Who is this Martin Navarro who married Petronilla Moctezuma and what time period are we talking about?

Thanks,

Esther
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from : --------------

Hello Daniel, is good to ear something of you. were you in vacation? I send you
> some question weeks ago but I didn´t received answer. I have some question for you or anyone, that can help me, I was making some investigation and, I found that my GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGM for my father side was Lorenza De Ruiz Esparza, how was daughter of Lope II Ruiz, Señor De Esparza,
> and Ana Francisca Navarro De Gabay. The interesting thing is that Ana Francisca is daughter of Martin Navarro De Gabay and Petronila de Moctezuma who was born in Nochistlan, Zac. about 1550. Do
> you know if this Petronila have some relation with Moctezuma II?
>
> Best regards
> Cristobal Villalobos
> -----Mensaje original----- De: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com
> [mailto:research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com] En nombre de mendezdelcamino
> Enviado el: Domingo, 12 de Octubre de 2008 05:20 a.m.
> Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Converso
>
>
> I havent heard this before! I always seen the Padillas as españoles, who is
> Gerónimo Ruiz de la Mota? Ana's father? -Daniel

Hi Sandra,
Thank a lot for all the information, I am going to review the Google the
story. For get facts and dates.
Saludos prima.......

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com] En nombre de Sandra
Gomez Mendoza
Enviado el: Domingo, 12 de Octubre de 2008 08:54 p.m.
Para: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Converso

Hi Cristobal,
 
I too have the Moctezuma connection.  A few of us on Nuestros Ranchos do :-)
 
Petronila was Leonor Moctezuma (b abt 1525 Mexico City) and Diego Arias de
Sotelo's (b abt 1518 Spain; m abt 1539) daughter.  Leonor was Isabel
(Ichcaxochitl) Moctezuma (b 6/11/1509 Mexico; d 12/9/1550) and Hernan
Cortez's (b 1485; d 12/2/1547) daughter.  Isabel was Motecuhzoma Xocoyotzin
(b 1466; d 6/30/1520) and Tecalco's (DOB unk) daughter... so yes, there is
not only a connection to Moctezuma but also Hernan Cortez.  Google the
story, it is very interesting.
 
Saludos primo!

Hello All its, Daniel! Anyway I can say something about this topic, Martín is stated as Hidalgo if im correct
in the book "Nochistlán" is it liñajes; I just know that part of the name not sure extct the name of it, but think
someone here owns it. Petronila is also know to be grandaughter or gret grandaught of the Aztec emperor
whether which line you believe is correct the Valderrama or Cortés line? I accpet the Cortés line to be
more accuarte. the book talks about the couple first spanish family of Nochistlán or back then it was
called Guadalajara de Nochistlán. Most spanish families tended to be hidalgos according to the research weve
done, hidalgos are just the lower class of the nobility often friends of the King but not peers. -Daniel
P.S. a great example would be HErmosillo family as a friend and Hidalgo but Esparza were titled and therfore
a peer.
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