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Francisco Michel Ordones

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By coronaarechiga - Posted on 16 November 2014

I have found a major flaw in my tree. It seems I have fallen victim to the syndrome of "too many people with the same name." I somehow had combined Francisco Michel-Ordones (1), married to Michaela Lopez-Bueso, with Francisco Michel-Ordones (2), married to Manuela Lopez-Bueso and then to Lorenza Gertrudes Gonzales. My husband is a direct descendant of both of these men.

Francisco (1), was married to Michaela up to the time of his death in 1709:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-8269-65?cc=1874591&wc=12508902

I have 7 children listed for this couple: Maria (Directly descended), Dominga, Domingo, Juana, Ascencio, Ignacio, Regina. I haven't located a marriage for this couple nor can I verify their parents...although there are several possibilities. A strong possibility is that he is the brother of Thomas Michel-Ordones, father of Francisco (2).

Francisco (2), was born to Thomas Michel-Ordones and Augustina Escobar in 1694 in Autlan:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18561-19394-40?cc=1874591&wc=12504693

was married to Manuela Lopez-Bueso until her death in 1742 in Sayula:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18571-57336-26?cc=1874591&wc=12509784

I have 5 children listed for this couple: Maria de la Concepcion, Juan Matias, Thomas, Julio Feliciano, and Justa Maria.

Francisco (2) married in 1744 in Sayula:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18578-4484-49?cc=1874591&wc=M99L-N21:1567847509

This couple had at least 6 children: Maria Magdalena (directly descended), Bernardino Jose, Juan Marcelo, Agustin Maria, Josef Francisco, and Thomas.

I've spent hours sorting out these two people and their families, but now I can't seem to be left with a swirl of information. I would greatly appreciate if someone could provide a life-preserver...or at least a stick.

Thank you,
Deedra Corona

RJ Quiralta

Well they are definitely two different people, time frame says it all, in the first couple, does the kids records mention the full composed name on the parents? the burial just says Michel for him and Hueso for her. Either case I would say that both parties are likely families since the ones in Autlan were from Tecocolotlan too, meaning that the two Franciscos were like you suggested Uncle-Nephew and the wives were likely related too, (Aunt-Niece, Cousins, etc).

Gil Topete
Not sure if you picked over these bones already that provide more indirect clues...I am also related to Captain Juan de Fonseca and his other son married Juana Lopez Boeso, the daughter of Francisco Michel Ordonez and Micaela Lopez Boeso (see bottom right continued on next page:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18715-13491-42?cc=1874591&wc=SS5M-4WG:173069801,173069802,174592201

But also, based on the original post, Cristobal Ordonez had several son's one also named Francisco much earlier...I am surprised that with so many sons and daughters of Micaela and Francisco that none of their children's baptism records are not revealing better clues?

Thank you for your other links. Does your information substantiate my guess that Manuala Lopez-Bueso had a brother Joseph Cayetano Lopez Bueso? His name in one form or the other is listed as the godfather of two of Manuelas children: Barbara and Antonia Lugarda. Know that your information Provided Gaspar has Manuela's father, I still have not connected Joseph to Gaspar.

Hello Gil Topete,

Thank you for your input into this puzzle. Indeed Manuela and Josef Cayetano (married to Margarita Ramirez Habellano) were siblings based on this Dispensa:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-29495-11106-51?cc=1937239&wc=M287-W3X:236973901

I hope this is helpful to you. We'll continue the search and hopefully, together, we can resolve this. And I thought I had it all under control!!
Thank you
Deedra Corona

Hi Deedra,
It seems we get to help each other again. I don’t have all the info you need, but I can help make a couple things more certain.

As far as I can tell, I am not a descendant of Francisco Michel-Ordoñes (1), but I do descend from the Francisco Michel Ordoñes (2) you mention. I do not know Francisco (1)’s parents. There was a Francisco Michel Corona, born 1609 in Guadalajara, and he is probably related, but there must be an intermediate generation at least.

Here is what I do have:
For Francisco Michel- Ordoñes (1) and Micheala Lopez-Bueso Betancur (?-1719), I also have the following children:
Dominga (?-1744), Asencio (1692-1727), Regina (1696-?), Juana (?)
Then I know that Michaela died 15 Apr 1719 in Tecolotlan:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-6814-12?cc=1874591&wc=SS5S-RM9:173069801,173069802,173504501

As far as Francisco Michel (2) and Manuela Lopez Buezo, you correctly point out his parents were Thomas Michel and Augustina de Escobar. I am not certain about Augustina’s info. She must have also used Vargas, making her name Augustina Vargas de Escobar, as you can see from Francisco’s 2nd marriage. There is the possibility she was born in Guadalajara as a Vargas-Machuca, but I can’t find my notes on that. You also provided us with the death date for Manuela Lopez Buezo, so thanks! That record also confirms that she was the daughter of Gaspar Lopez Buezo and Mariana Sanchez Cabezuela. You may already have had this (and her parents’ names), but Manuela’s baptism is in Tecolotlan in 1699:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-58847-34?cc=1874591&wc=12508783
I don’t have a death date for Francisco (2)
For the children of his first marriage, you have a Julio Feliciano, but I descend from Antonio Feliciano (aka Felix) Michel, baptized in Tuxcacuesco on 11 Nov 1730, born Oct 19.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-26893-39?cc=1874591&wc=12511381
Do you have concrete info on Julio Feliciano as a different person than Antonio Feliciano?

Hope this helps!

Sergio Salés

Gil Topete

So how does this record fit into the equation for Francisco Michel married to Joana de Vetancor? Their son Salvador is marrying into the lopez-Hueso family in 1688.

See bottom right-side record:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18715-13486-33?cc=1874591&wc=SS5M-4WG:173069801,173069802,174592201

Godparents look to be Joa Michel and Maria/Magdalina de Cobarrubias.

Hello Gil and Sergio, thank you for your help. Its always more fun to work as a team.
I have come to the belief, as yet unproven, that Francisco Michel Ordonez, married to Michaela, is the son of Francisco Michel and Juana Betancur Ruiz. This would make him the brother of Salvador, Nicolasa, and Thomas. It is very possible that Juan Michel, married to Magdalena Cobarrubias is their brother as well as this couple are padrinos in several weddings and baptisms within this family. However this remains speculation with no definitive proof...waiting for a miracle.

Sergio, I apologize for giving the wrong name for your ancestor Antonio Feliciano. I was probably looking at the next name, Justa Maria, and change Antonio to Julio in my mind. Also, that was a very good call regarding Agustina Vargas Escobar and the Vargas Machuca family. Here is the link for her baptism:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18378-14449-7?cc=1874591&wc=SSKC-C6D:171935001,182938601,1083805502

Also the marriage of her sister Maria Ana:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18715-13671-40?cc=1874591&wc=SS5M-4WG:173069801,173069802,174592201

And baptism for her brother Francisco:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-61850-38?cc=1874591&wc=SS5Q-92S:173069801,173069802,173069803

The search continues!!!
Deedra Corona

Gil Topete

Hi Deedra does your research confirm if Juana is probably the niece of Isabel Betancor Ruiz who I have as being married to Francisco Garsia de Alba circa 1630 or is she possibly her sister?

Thanks

Gil Topete

Sergio, I too descend from Antonio Feliciano through his son Antonio Jose Martin Michel.
What is uncanny, and perhaps evident to both of you is that both documents Sergfio has provided links to happen to have other Michel information on them.

The first page list the death of Nicolaza Michel in March, while page two lists the death of Michaela.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-6814-12?cc=1874591&wc=SS5S-RM9:173069801,173069802,173504501

The following baptism record for Manuela from 1699 reveals the baptism record for Francisco Michel and Michaela Guerrero and their daughter Dominga...is this a coincidence? Or does everyone agree that Michaela Guerro is Michaela Lopez Bueso. If so Sergio, you have your baptism date for Dominga 1699 to 1744.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-58847-34?cc=1874591&wc=12508783

Hi Deedra and Sergio, I found the following record for the baptism
of Maria Navarrete Corona in Autlan, June of 1641. While these names
are more discernible than those under Maria Ana's marriage, is this
another daughter? Seems unusual to get married 45 years later unless
Maria and Maria Ana are two different daughters.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18561-23053-11?cc=1874591&wc=SSLN-3TL:171935101,171935102,171935103

I think its clear that the names are of her parents are Luis de Navarrete and Luisa or Lucia Corona. Not Jesus de Navarrete as indexed on Maria Ana's record. Also I am
beginning to think Lucia/Luisa is closely related to Graciana Corona who was married to Juan Michel Ordonez II.

Your thoughts?

Gil Topete

Deedra and Sergio, focus on the names of the de Navarrete and Corona's. I hit reply only after I suddenly realized Maria is the sister of Hernan de Navarrete Corona and not Maria Ana Vargas de Escobar.

Gil Topete

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