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Y DNA Update
Hello Everyone, seeing the post today in regards to Y DNA results, It occurred to me that I said I would share my results when they came in. Sorry I didn't do this sooner, although I'm sure no one was losing sleep over it ( HA !) My Y DNA results are E1b1b1a2 \ Shorthand E-V13. It is the 3rd most common haplogroup among European men and considered one of the core or founding groups in Europe. It is the only E subclade that is found in low frequencies (2% ) in N. Africa. This subclade is associated with the Balkans where the largest worldwide percentage of E-V13 is found. It is used to identify ancient peoples such as the Illyrians, Thracians and Macedonians, as well as Greeks. Modern populations that show high percentages of E-V13 are Albanians, Peloponnesian Greeks, Bulgarians and Macedonians.
As far as Spain is concerned, it is found in low numbers and mostly confined to the west of the country, the highest percentages being found in Extremadura (9%), Galicia (7%) and NW Castile (6%). It was, at one time, thought to be found in Spain due to ancient Greek exploration and settlement, but Greek settlements noted are only found on the east coast in the regions of Cataluña and Valencia. The vast majority of “E” Y DNA in Spain is associated with the Berbers, but this is sub clade E-M81.
One theory as to how a DNA marker so prevalent in the Balkans and the Eastern Mediterranean made it's way to Western Europe and Spain can be found in a town in Wales called Abegele. A study was conducted involving the town and out of 18 men tested, 7 tested positive for the marker E-V13. A wider study was conducted and it concluded that 40 % of the men in the town carried the E-V13 marker. It turns out in antiquity; Abergele was an important Roman town. It was not garrisoned by Romans \ Italians, but by Thracian auxiliaries and other men with a Balkan origin. A similar scenario could also apply to Spain, perhaps the marker made it's way there with auxiliaries in the Roman army ? The E-V13 marker also found it's way into Afghanistan and Pakistan with the men in Alexander the Great's army. A small percentage is found amongst groups who claim these men as their ancestors.
So what does it all mean?well, for one, I'm the only E-V13 on Gary Felix's website, the “Geneology of Mexico”. There are others who have the same 12 \37 marker results, but have not done the deep clade test, so who knows ? As far as helping me with my genealogy studies, as of yet it has not. I'm thinking that my ancestors in Spain may have come from one of the western provinces, perhaps Extremadura, but it’s all speculation at this point. Sorry to bore you all ! Thanks for your patience!
Robert ~
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Hi Robert and Emilie et al. About Jews and Los Altos, there is some jewish origin in some families. One is the infamous case of the Padilla Dávila they have Jewish blood, not sure how but in Retoños I by Mariano Gonzalez Leal, it states that they were able to assilimate with the alteños eveenthough by law it was ilegal to marry a jew, because of herecy. I come from the Padillas at least once I believe So I guess I do have jewish connection. About looking Mexican thats absurd, I hate it when people say "you don't look Mexican" as if we all looked the same. Not sure why in Mexico, Europe and Latin America when someone thinks of a Mexican they usually picture the colonial, fair skinned person but in the US they picture a more Native American. I am Mexican and I always picture a fair-skinned person possibly due to the influence I had as a child to Los Altos. All my cousins look just like I do. Thats a shock and very offensive when people say I dont look Mexican. Mexico has all colors, Brown, tan, white, black and anything in between just like the US we are a pluricultural nation. Europeans, Native Americans, African, and so on. People can be ignorant if they dont know their history, I had a teacher once who didnt even know Europeans arrived in Mexico much less the Spanish language came from Europe! Actually it was two teachers, I responded by saying, "Europeans did come to Mexico in the 16th Century how else did we get European names? Fernández, García etc. Spanish comes from Europe, in Spain where they speak Spanish. They also though Spain was in Latin America. Shows how much people can be ignorant.
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Hey Daniel, it is crazy in regards to stereo typing any ethnic group and the way they look. It is true that most, but not all, of Anglo America thinks all Mexicans look and act the same. So many have no clue about the different groups that make up the modern Mexican, and forget about Spain ! George W. Bush himself thought Spain was located in South America ! One funny note about not looking hispanic \ latino is that on more than one occasion I've caught people talking about me or my wife in Spanish because they don't realize I SPEAK SPANISH ! When I reply to them in Spanish, the looks on their faces are priceless. Robert~
Un comentario a todos los compañeros, no todos entendemos el ingles, de tal manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y datos que aportar a los distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian tambien escribirlos en español y asi aumentar el numero de participantes en las discuciones.
Saludos cordiales
Antonio Santillan
> From: auntyemfaustus [at] hotmail [dot] com
> To: general [at] nuestrosranchos [dot] com
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:17:46 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
>
> I thought Limpieza de Sangre meant that seminarians had to prove they had no Muslim or Jewish blood before they were allowed to take holy orders. I guess at first only Europeans were allowed to be priests? I see that there are microfilms of records of those proceedings. In Mexico, you have many Indio or Mestizo priests, not just white priests. By what date was that Limpieza de Sangre business put to rest officially?
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
> To: general [at] nuestrosranchos [dot] com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 10:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
>
>
>
> The Visigoths still exist today, in Spain and Spanish America. Spaniards are a mixture of Europeans, Celtic, Goth (Germanic) Suevic, Nordic and many more. The south tends to exist the Jewish and Arabic connection. While the north tends to be more of that Catholic blood. Essentially the Spaniards of today are the visigoths of the past. Limpieza de Sangre is a difficult thing to explain at times and very harsh to hear, essentially its to 'whiten' oneself and their descendants. This usually happened when a mestizo child (that of a European and Native American) essentially that Mestizo would marry white to make a castizo and then castizo married white again to make full European, hiding its Native American genes, from then on they would keep marrying other Spanish. If a mestizo would come along one day the whole process would repeat. A perfect example of Limpirza de Sangre would be our Moctezuma connection, Isabel married Hernan Cortes, Leonor married Valderrama, then Petronila married Navarro, who had Ana Franca. then he married Lope Esparza. By this time, no one would ever guess they would have descended from Moctezuma, as they would have looked like the average European child. It just shows the stuff our ancestors did to crazy extremes. Actuall a saying of Los Altos states, us alteños as los 'Godos'.
>
>
>
> "Son los de este pueblo (Los Altos de Jalisco)
>
> de sangre de godos
>
> todos son parientes,
>
> y enemigos todos."
>
>
>
> MAriano Gonzalez Leal startes talking about the alteños and their noble ancestors that of the Visigoths and the Hidalgos. The amazing book he wrote is dedicated to Los Altos.
>
>
>
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That saying explains the use of the images of knights, Germanic looking to me, in this video, which I like a lot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBLgnIUMGPo
Esa frase explica el uso de las imagenes de caballeros medievales, que a mi parecen tipo Aleman, en el video, que me gusta mucho http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBLgnIUMGPo
Armando
Hi Armando,
I also love that 'Alteño' channel on youtube they post great videos on our culture. I remember as a child I would always be told of stories, 'Los conquistadores, El Cid, Don Quijote, El Rey, Alfonso I, La Conquista', Then old stories of the revolution. I think 'Los Altos' has a unique culture then the rest of Méjico, a region of one of a kind. Like my grandfather says, "Nunca olvidaremos nuestra Madre Patria, España". I was able to live in 'Los Altos' when I was 6 to abt 7 years old. So abt 8-9 months, it was the best experience to see my grandparents. The saying is true though eventhough we all come from the first (not sure if too say Spanish, b/c they were other Europeans too) families, all the 'alteños' were enemies at the same time. My grandfathers uncles and cousins killed each other in a duel in 1950. Over the love of their cousin and some personal hatred towards each other.
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
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I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though
my father was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except
when he and my mother had secrets not for children's ears). It is
difficult to follow everything on this list unless a person is
bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a translating angel who
would magically translate all the emails into both Spanish and
English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests
us. Valuable information would not be missed.
Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.
Linda
On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request [at] lists [dot] nuestrosranchos [dot] com
wrote:
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000
> From: Antonio Santillan
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
> To:
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el
> ingles, de tal manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y
> datos que aportar a los distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian
> tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y asi aumentar el numero de
> participantes en las discuciones.
>
>
>
> Saludos cordiales
>
>
>
> Antonio Santillan
>
Linda,
why forbidden?
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda
To: general [at] lists [dot] nuestrosranchos [dot] com
Sent: Fri, Jul 3, 2009 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though my father was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except when he and my mother had secrets not for children's ears). It is difficult to follow everything on this list unless a person is bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a translating angel who would magically translate all the emails into both Spanish and English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests us. Valuable information would not be missed.?
?
Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.?
?
Linda?
?
On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request [at] lists [dot] nuestrosranchos [dot] com wrote:?
?
> Message: 3?
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000?
> From: Antonio Santillan ?
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews?
> To: ?
> Message-ID: ?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"?
>?
>?
> Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el > ingles, de tal manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y > datos que aportar a los distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian > tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y asi aumentar el numero de > participantes en las discuciones.?
>?
>?
>?
> Saludos cordiales?
>?
>?
>?
> Antonio Santillan?
>?
?
I'm a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish unless it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us," you're an American so speak English!) I know that they thought they were helping us to fit by not having a Spanish accent when we spoke English. Our town was very divided racially and all any parents want's is the best avenue for their children so I'm not angry or fell cheated. I did take it in high school but found when you don't use it you loose it! When I went to Mexico they laughed at my slow broken Spanish but appreciated that I did try. My family immigrated in 1916 from Jerez and both grandparents became citizens and spoke English to all the grandchildren.
LInda in B.C.
--- On Fri, 7/3/09, sjlstar [at] aol [dot] com wrote:
From: sjlstar [at] aol [dot] com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
To: general [at] nuestrosranchos [dot] com
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:11 PM
Linda,
why forbidden?
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda
To: general [at] lists [dot] nuestrosranchos [dot] com
Sent: Fri, Jul 3, 2009 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though my father was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except when he and my mother had secrets not for children's ears). It is difficult to follow everything on this list unless a person is bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a translating angel who would magically translate all the emails into both Spanish and English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests us. Valuable information would not be missed.?
?
Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.?
?
Linda?
?
On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request [at] lists [dot] nuestrosranchos [dot] com wrote:?
?
> Message: 3?
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000?
> From: Antonio Santillan ?
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews?
> To: ?
> Message-ID: ?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"?
>?
>?
> Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el > ingles, de tal manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y > datos que aportar a los distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian > tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y asi aumentar el numero de > participantes en las discuciones.?
>?
>?
>?
> Saludos cordiales?
>?
>?
>?
> Antonio Santillan?
>?
?
That's funny.
I'm glad I've broken that tradition. The problem now, I feel guilty using it, and slow learning..
That langauge just won't stayed. Gosh! When visiting Mexico, people notice my problem.
They alway pointed out "What's your last name again? And I respond by speaking in German.
I get the last laugh seeing their lost expression!!
My elder said, no Spainish. But they didnt say "no" to other langauges.
Keep trying...
Robert R P25+
P.S..> http://www.euroresidentes.com/translation/spanish_english_translation.htm
________________________________
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general [at] nuestrosranchos [dot] com
Sent: Friday, July 3, 2009 6:25:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I'm a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish unless it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us," you're an American so speak English!) I know that they thought they were helping us to fit by not having a Spanish accent when we spoke English. Our town was very divided racially and all any parents want's is the best avenue for their children so I'm not angry or fell cheated. I did take it in high school but found when you don't use it you loose it! When I went to Mexico they laughed at my slow broken Spanish but appreciated that I did try. My family immigrated in 1916 from Jerez and both grandparents became citizens and spoke English to all the grandchildren.
LInda in B.C.
--- On Fri, 7/3/09, sjlstar [at] aol [dot] com wrote:
From: sjlstar [at] aol [dot] com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
To: general [at] nuestrosranchos [dot] com
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:11 PM
Linda,
why forbidden?
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda
To: general [at] lists [dot] nuestrosranchos [dot] com
Sent: Fri, Jul 3, 2009 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I agree with Antonio Santillan. I do not speak Spanish, even though my father was born in Jalisco. It was forbidden in our house (except when he and my mother had secrets not for children's ears). It is difficult to follow everything on this list unless a person is bilingual. My fondest wish would be to have a translating angel who would magically translate all the emails into both Spanish and English so we could all participate in whatever discussion interests us. Valuable information would not be missed.?
?
Maybe, one of these days, there will be such an invention for the net.?
?
Linda?
?
On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:03 PM, general-request [at] lists [dot] nuestrosranchos [dot] com wrote:?
?
> Message: 3?
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:32:10 +0000?
> From: Antonio Santillan ?
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews?
> To: ?
> Message-ID: ?
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"?
>?
>?
> Un comentario a todos los compa?eros, no todos entendemos el > ingles, de tal manera que no participamos aun teniendo ganas y > datos que aportar a los distintos temas, sugerencia no podrian > tambien escribirlos en espa?ol y asi aumentar el numero de > participantes en las discuciones.?
>?
>?
>?
> Saludos cordiales?
>?
>?
>?
> Antonio Santillan?
>?
?
Linda,
My Dad was also from Jerez, and he would have liked his children to speak Spanish, but my mother was a Native of New Mexico, and they spoke a dialect all their own that my father did not like and that Mexicans made fun of, so we preferred English to get ahead faster as Americans. We just did not need Spanish, anymore than most Mexicans have no need to learn English.
I don't see the problem with using the online translation services. When I use those to translate from Spanish to English, it is like a robot speaking, the syntax is weird, but at least I get the gist of what is being said.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general [at] nuestrosranchos [dot] com
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
I'm a different Linda but we had the same rule in our family, No Spanish unless it was a secret plus my grandparents would tell us," you're an American so speak English!) I know that they thought they were helping us to fit by not having a Spanish accent when we spoke English. Our town was very divided racially and all any parents want's is the best avenue for their children so I'm not angry or fell cheated. I did take it in high school but found when you don't use it you loose it! When I went to Mexico they laughed at my slow broken Spanish but appreciated that I did try. My family immigrated in 1916 from Jerez and both grandparents became citizens and spoke English to all the grandchildren.
LInda in B.C.
--- On Fri, 7/3/09, sjlstar [at] aol [dot] com > wrote:
From: sjlstar [at] aol [dot] com >
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA and Jews
To: general [at] nuestrosranchos [dot] com
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:11 PM
Linda,
why forbidden?
Stella