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New Member Introduction for Rudy Munoz

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By 5 MUNOZ - Posted on 05 August 2008

Good Evening,

I'd like to take a moment to introduce myself to the group. I have just recently begun to research my family roots. I am new to this so please be patient with me until I get up to speed with all of you!!! It has been a difficult task obtaining famly information since most of the family with the key information has passed on. The branch I am currently focusing on is for my Paternal Munoz & Macias lineage. My Grandfathers name was Jose Gutierrez Munoz who was born in Tlachichila, Zacatecas in 1897. My grandfathers parents names were Magdaleno Munoz & Nolberta Gutierrez. The only other info I have on this line is the name of my gg grandfather Rafael Gutierrez. From what I am told Rafael had two wives. However, no one remembers their names! Any help with this branch would be very welcome. Nolberta Gutierrez had siblings by the names of: Margarita, Thomasa, Basilia & Rafael. Magdaleno Munoz had only one sister by the name of Diega who married a Santellan.

I have had much better luck with my Macias lineage! This branch of the family seems to have resided in Villa Hidalgo, Teocaltiche, San Juan de los Lagos & Lagos de Moreno areas of Jalisco. I have also tracked down family records from Aguascalientes. The family names from this lineage are as follows: Macias, Olmos, Pedroza, Aguallo, Ruiz, Garcia, Estrada, Limon, Quesada, Calvillo, Luera, Villanueva, Chavez, Esparza, Aguilar and /or Avelar and Villavicensio. I am currently at the early 1800's with this branch.

I look forward to participating in your discussions. I have learned a great deal from your recent discussions regarding research. Any input and corrections are always welcome.

Rudy Munoz - Phoenix, AZ

URL: http://www.nuestrosranchos.com/node/16983

Good Evening and welcome Rudy,

You and I may be related through various surnames, my family descends from Tlachichila, Nochistlan, Jalpa and Tabasco Zacatecas and from Aguascalientes, Ags.

I have about 4 Muños family lines. My primary surnames are Avelar (dad's surname), Olmos (mom's surname)

My father's surnames are: Avelar, Aguayo, Garcia, Muños, Muños, Ortega, Garcia, Gomez, Duran, Guerrero, Olmos, De-la Cruz. To date all but De La Cruz are from the Municipio de Nochistlan. The rancherias are Monte De Duranes, Sombreretillo, San Roque, Cerro de San Miguel, La Cienega. You might want to check your records to see what the names of the rancherias were. There's a reason why the name of Nuestros Ranchos, the ranchos lead you to your ancestors.

My paternal grandmother was Rebeca Aguayo, Muños, her parents were Antonio Aguayo and Gregoria Muños, however this is the line in which I have done very little research, therefore at this time I cannot provide much information.

Look forward to hearing from you soon.

Alicia, Avelar, Olmos, Aguayo, Ruiz de Carrillo
San Jose, Calif

----- Original Message ----
From: "rmunoz18@cox.net"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 8:28:45 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] New Member Introduction for Rudy Munoz

Good Evening,

I'd like to take a moment to introduce myself to the group. I have just recently begun to research my family roots. I am new to this so please be patient with me until I get up to speed with all of you!!! It has been a difficult task obtaining famly information since most of the family with the key information has passed on. The branch I am currently focusing on is for my Paternal Munoz & Macias lineage. My Grandfathers name was Jose Gutierrez Munoz who was born in Tlachichila, Zacatecas in 1897. My grandfathers parents names were Magdaleno Munoz & Nolberta Gutierrez. The only other info I have on this line is the name of my gg grandfather Rafael Gutierrez. From what I am told Rafael had two wives. However, no one remembers their names! Any help with this branch would be very welcome. Nolberta Gutierrez had siblings by the names of: Margarita, Thomasa, Basilia & Rafael. Magdaleno Munoz had only one sister by the name of Diega who married
a Santellan.

I have had much better luck with my Macias lineage! This branch of the family seems to have resided in Villa Hidalgo, Teocaltiche, San Juan de los Lagos & Lagos de Moreno areas of Jalisco. I have also tracked down family records from Aguascalientes. The family names from this lineage are as follows: Macias, Olmos, Pedroza, Aguallo, Ruiz, Garcia, Estrada, Limon, Quesada, Calvillo, Luera, Villanueva, Chavez, Esparza, Aguilar and /or Avelar and Villavicensio. I am currently at the early 1800's with this branch.

I look forward to participating in your discussions. I have learned a great deal from your recent discussions regarding research. Any input and corrections are always welcome.

Rudy Munoz - Phoenix, AZ

URL: http://www.nuestrosranchos.com/node/16983

Hello Rudy, I can help you alot on your Macías, Pedrosa, Esparza, Estrada, Calvillo
These families except Calvillo, Estrada I descend from. Many other members do descend from the Esparza, I believe I'm the only one descending from the Pedrosa need to check. And
now you too descend from the Pedrosa. The following may help.

Los Altos and Aguas-Old Spaniard Usage

The Macías family is de Macías y Valadés
The Estrada- de Estrada y Bocanegra
The Calvillo- Martínez de Calvillo (Owners of La Hacienda de San Nicolás)
The Esparza- Ruiz de Esparza
The Pedrosa-de la Pedrosa y Alba

These are the actual last names us Spaniards used for the Colonial Period of New
Spain, There are families that still use this system today, but most have
shorten to Macías, Estrada, Calvillo, Esparza, Pedrosa due to some law of Spain
I read on Wikipedia, that prohibited non Criollos to use original form, not sure thought
exactly why? Many have thought is was about Lasiness and or custom to shorten it
but this is inaccurate since Spaniards are SOOOO PROUD, (according to my Grndfther)
they would have never dared to shorten their names unless the King decreed.

Regards,
-Daniel Méndez del Camino....de Macías-Valadés,....Ruiz de Esparza (about 8 times Esparza).....de la Pedrosa-Ruiz :)
P.S. Dont hesitate to contact me!

_________________________________________________________________
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Hello Rudy,

I am not certain but I found someone that I believed that it could be your grandfather on the pilot family search site:

http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/#placeId=1927078;motherSurname=gutierrez;fatherGivenName=magdaleno;givenName=jose;eventPlace=Mexico;p=1;surname=munoz;searchType=standard

I know its not the same date but many times you discover that are family member was wrong, for example my grandmother, it was said she was born in 1899 and in reality in the records she was born in 1894. Also besides that sometimes LDS site will mispell names or also many of our family members in the 1800's would have Jose or Maria in front of everyones name. I found many members of my family just by putting these names infront.

Name: Jose Donato Muños

Residence: Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico

Christening place: Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico

Birth date:

Birth place:

Father name: Magdaleno Muños

Father name note:

Mother name: Norberta Gutierrez

Mother name note:

Gender: Male

Death date:

Name note:

UDE batch number: 103330-9

Date range:

Record group: Mexico-EASy

Film number: 226688

Good Luck!

Sofia
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Daniel here is my Macias line, interested in seeing how we may be related.  I am starting from the 1500's working forward.
Nicolas Macias Valadez, born abt. 1557/1561- Lagos de Mareno, Jalisco, Mexico
Wife:Leonor Retamosa, B: abt. 1561-Lagos de Mareno, Jalisco, Mexico.
Son: Pedro Macias Valadez, B. abt. 1588-Aguascalientes, Aguascalients, Mexico.
Wife:Luisa Villegas, B. abt 1592-Lagos de Morno, Jalisco, Mexico.  Married abt. 1613.
Daughter:Catarina Macias Valadez y Villegas, B> abt. 1614-died 1672
Husband:Tomas Villalobos, b. 25 Feb 1604-Cuauhtemoc, D.F., Mexico.  Married abt 1633.
Son:Nicolas Villalobos Macias, B. 3 Noc 1637-El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
Wife:Theresa Carrillo de Sandi y Castillo, b. 1640-Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico.
Dau: Mariana de Carrillo de Sandi Villalobos, B. 1665, Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico.
Husband: Capitqan Nicolas Ruiz de Esparza Romo de Vibar, B.1656-Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
Married:31 Dec 1685-Aguascalientes,Mexico.
Son: Jose Andres Villalobos Romo de Vibar. B/ 1709-Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
Wife:Maria Margarita Martines de Soto, Married 7 March 1734-Asientos, Rincon de Ramos, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
Son:Pedro Jose Romo de Vibar, B.29 Sep 1740-Asientos, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
Wife:Maria Petra del Carmen Gallo or Gayo(spelled both ways)b. 25 June 1747-Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico.
Dau: Maria Gertrudes Romo de Vibar, B. Rincon de Ramos, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
Husband:Jose Rafael Serrano-of Las Pilas,
Asientos, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
Married:30 April 1788-San Jose de Gracia, Rincon de Ramos, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
Son:Pedro Jose de Jesus Serrano, B. 5July 1790-Asientos, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
Wife:Maxima or Mascima Montellano
Son:Juan de Dios Serrano
Wife:Petra Lopez
(Note: no other info. on this couple)
Dau.: Mariana Serrano, B. 1850-Rincon de Ramos, Aguascalients, Mexico.
Husband:Benigno de Loera, B. 13 Feb 1848-Rincon de Ramos, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
Married:20 Feb. 1871
Dau.: Maria de Jesus de Loera, B. 24 Nov 1881-Saucillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
Husband: Francisco Pulido, Married 28 Nov 1897-Rincon de Ramos, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
Dau.: Maria del Refugio Pulido, B. 28 Oct 1896-Barrio de Guadalupe, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Husband:Francisco Reynoso, B., 26 June 1885-Moyahua, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Married: 23 Oct 1912-Nelson, Yavapai, Arizona
Dau.: Lorena or Lorenza Reynoso, B. 24 Nov 1914-Randsburg, Kern County, California.
Died:11 Nov 1999-Los Gatos, Santa Clara, California
Note: When my mother was born, my grandfather told the doctor that she was to be named after his mother Lorenza.  The doctor did not like the name and argued with him, told him that Lorena was better.  He told my grandfather that he would record the name as Lorenza but he did not do that.  Her baptismal certificate has her down as Lorenza but her birth certificate as Lorena.  She has been known by both names.
The dates recorded are figured at a 20 year span between parent and child.
Irene 

----- Original Message ----
From: Daniel Mendez
To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 11:53:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] New Member Introduction for Rudy Munoz

Hello Rudy, I can help you alot on your Macías, Pedrosa, Esparza, Estrada, Calvillo
These families except Calvillo, Estrada I descend from. Many other members do descend from the Esparza, I believe I'm the only one descending from the Pedrosa need to check. And
now you too descend from the Pedrosa. The following may help.

Los Altos and Aguas-Old Spaniard Usage

The Macías family is de Macías y Valadés
The Estrada- de Estrada y Bocanegra
The Calvillo- Martínez de Calvillo (Owners of La Hacienda de San Nicolás)
The Esparza- Ruiz de Esparza
The Pedrosa-de la Pedrosa y Alba

These are the actual last names us Spaniards used for the Colonial Period of New
Spain, There are families that still use this system today, but most have
shorten to Macías, Estrada, Calvillo, Esparza, Pedrosa due to some law of Spain
I read on Wikipedia, that prohibited non Criollos to use original form, not sure thought
exactly why? Many have thought is was about Lasiness and or custom to shorten it
but this is inaccurate since Spaniards are SOOOO PROUD, (according to my Grndfther)
they would have never dared to shorten their names unless the King decreed.

Regards, 
-Daniel Méndez del Camino....de Macías-Valadés,....Ruiz de Esparza (about 8 times Esparza).....de la Pedrosa-Ruiz :)
P.S. Dont hesitate to contact me!

_________________________________________________________________
Got Game? Win Prizes in the Windows Live Hotmail Mobile Summer Games Trivia Contest
http://www.gowindowslive.com/summergames?ocid=TXT_TAGHM

Hi Irene! We are related several times, I descend from Nicolás Macías' other 3 children not Pedro, so we share Nicolás, we are also related throught the obvious Esparza and Romos! I descend from Esparza about 8 times and Romo 5 times. So were related about 16 times! It's funny how our families managed to inbreed for centuries! I also noticied you did not include Nicolás' father;
his name was Blas de Macías y Valadés, the mother is uknown. -Hope this helps you.
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
_________________________________________________________________
Get Windows Live and get whatever you need, wherever you are. Start here.
http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home_082008

Thanks Daniel for the name of Nicolas Macias's father.  I did not have that information.  The field of genealogy is very exciting and interesting.  One never knows what they will find.  That is neat that we are related so many times. 
Irene

Irene

----- Original Message ----
From: Daniel Mendez
To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 12:31:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] New Member Introduction for Rudy Munoz

Hi Irene! We are related several times, I descend from Nicolás Macías' other 3 children not Pedro, so we share Nicolás, we are also related throught the obvious Esparza and Romos! I descend from Esparza about 8 times and Romo 5 times. So were related about 16 times! It's funny how our families managed to inbreed for centuries! I also noticied you did not include Nicolás' father;
his name was Blas de Macías y Valadés, the mother is uknown. -Hope this helps you.
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
_________________________________________________________________
Get Windows Live and get whatever you need, wherever you are.  Start here.
http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home_082008

I need help with a name.
A marriage record gives the name of the bride but it is not clear what
is the surname and what is part of the given name. I have this problem
a lot, and the context of the record doesn't help.

This example is
Josepha Flores de la Torre y Romero.
The time period is 1747 and she was married in Aguascalientes and was
born in Teocaltiche (Jalisco) about 1731. Her father was just listed
as Antonio, so that doesn't help much. Her mother's name is Bolañes.

Does anyone recognize the surname or can anyone give any tips on how
to distinguish where the given name ends and the surname begins. Or does
anyone have any wisdom to impart about naming conventions in the early
1700's.
--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com

Hello Sofia, Thank you for the info. I looked into it and determined that this is my grandfather. I have adjusted my information! I also found two other siblings that matched my information using the Search Pilot. I should have started with verifying my grandfathers' information first before trying to figure out who his grand parents were. Lesson learned! I also want to thank all of you who have responded to my introduction. Be patient with me. I will definitely be getting back to each and every one of you. I truly appreciate your responses.

Rudy Munoz - Phoenix, AZ.
---- sophia wrote:
>
> Hello Rudy,
>
> I am not certain but I found someone that I believed that it could be your grandfather on the pilot family search site:
>
>
> http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/#placeId=1927078;motherSurname=gutierrez;fatherGivenName=magdaleno;givenName=jose;eventPlace=Mexico;p=1;surname=munoz;searchType=standard
>
> I know its not the same date but many times you discover that are family member was wrong, for example my grandmother, it was said she was born in 1899 and in reality in the records she was born in 1894. Also besides that sometimes LDS site will mispell names or also many of our family members in the 1800's would have Jose or Maria in front of everyones name. I found many members of my family just by putting these names infront.
>
>
>
> Name: Jose Donato Muños
>
> Residence: Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico
>
> Christening place: Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico
>
> Birth date:
>
> Birth place:
>
> Father name: Magdaleno Muños
>
> Father name note:
>
> Mother name: Norberta Gutierrez
>
> Mother name note:
>
> Gender: Male
>
> Death date:
>
> Name note:
>
> UDE batch number: 103330-9
>
> Date range:
>
> Record group: Mexico-EASy
>
> Film number: 226688
>
>
> Good Luck!
>
> Sofia
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

Hello Stuart,

Compounded surnames were very common during colonial times in Mexico and
throughout Latin America. Flores de la Torre is a good example. This
surname started when Alférez Real D. Hernán Flores, a native of Salamanca,
married Doña María Alvarez de la Torre. He was a "Conquistador de la Nueva
Galicia" and one of the founders of Guadalajara. The family settled in
Zacatecas, where Hernán Flores was granted the "Encomienda de Juchipila" by
the Real Audiencia de Guadalajara. The second Encomendero de Juchipila was
his son Diego Flores de la Torre, born ca. 1540 in Juchipila. He married
Doña Angela de Velasco y Figueroa ca. 1555 in Mexico City and had ten
children: Diego, Hernán, Ana, Francisca, Angela, María, Catalina, Isabel,
Francisco and Elena, all born during the second half of the 16th century.
Their son Diego was the third Encomendero de Juchipila. He married Beatriz
de Anda Altamirano. By the late 16th century there were many descendants of
the Alférez Real Hernán Flores living in the area. Incidentally, the town
of Bolaños is not far from Juchipila.

If you do a lot of genealogical and historical research of Aguascalientes,
Zacatecas and Altos de Jalisco you will become accustomed to the compounded
surnames of the region. Many books have been written about these families.
The most common compounded surnames from Aguascalientes are Ruiz de Esparza,
Romo de Vivar, López de Elizalde, Martínez de Sotomayor, Anda Altamirano,
Macías Valadez, Carrillo de Sandi, Flores de la Torre, etc. etc. There were
no rules for spelling these surnames in the 16th and 17th centuries, so you
will find many variations in both church and civil records. Some are simply
spelling errors, so be careful. For the sake of consistency, I prefer to
use the modern spelling in my database, but make notes of the spelling used
in the original documents.

Hope this helps.

Bill Figueroa

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart Armstrong"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 6:27 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help with name forms

I need help with a name.
A marriage record gives the name of the bride but it is not clear what
is the surname and what is part of the given name. I have this problem
a lot, and the context of the record doesn't help.

This example is
Josepha Flores de la Torre y Romero.
The time period is 1747 and she was married in Aguascalientes and was
born in Teocaltiche (Jalisco) about 1731. Her father was just listed
as Antonio, so that doesn't help much. Her mother's name is Bolañes.

Does anyone recognize the surname or can anyone give any tips on how
to distinguish where the given name ends and the surname begins. Or does
anyone have any wisdom to impart about naming conventions in the early
1700's.
--
Best regards,
Stuart

Hello Rudy,
I just started my own genealogy research. I have found an ancestor by the name of Guillermo Estrada Limon born 1834 in Teocaltiche to Timoteo Limon and Tiburcia Estrada. Guilllermo Limon married Margarita Macias in 1862 also in Teocaltiche. They had a son by the name of Sabino but I have no record of him. I only know that he married Andrea Esparza who I also have no record of.

I am looking for any information and records that may help me fill in the connections for the Limon, Macias, and Estrada family in Teocaltiche.

-Esperanza

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