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Cristobal and or Rodrigo Cristobal Olivares

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By blankcast75 - Posted on 12 February 2021

I have recently bought and checked out several great books for my research on my paternal side. But, the latest book I bought has me questioning the help and information I have taken from previous books and online searches.
I am researching the couple Manuel Gomez and Catalina de Mendoza in los altos de Jalisco (Jalostotitlan). I have them as the parents of Juana Gomez de Mendoza, who was married to Domingo Lomelin. Anyway, I originally had Catalina's father and mother as Rodrigo Olivares and Maria Hurtado de Mendoza. Quite a few books seem to point in that direction. However, if I am reading it correctly, this newer book seems to say that Catalina's parents were actually Cristobal Olivares and Mariana (Maria) de Mendoza. AND that the Maria de Mendoza that was married to Rodrigo de Olivares was actually A SISTER of the Catalina de Mendoza.
If I am reading it correctly, the author of this second edition mentions that he too also believed that Rodrigo de Olivares and Maria Hurtado de Mendoza were the parents of Francisca Hurtado de Mendoza (who is another SISTER of Catalina), married to Francisco Gutierrez Rubio,
so that would have made them Catalina's parents too. BUT after being presented with a testimony located in San Luis Potosi, he now believes that Francisca's (and therefore Catalina's parents) are Cristobal Olivares and Mariana (Maria) de Mendoza.
Has anyone else come across this issue?
Sandra

I would like to thank Sandra for bringing up this question regarding the parents of Catalina Mendoza. In order to answer this question we must search out all primary sources on the subject, staring out with the testimony located in San Luis Potosi.

Cristobal Olivares and Mariana (Maria) de Mendoza are also the parents of Isabel Mendoza that is married to Gonzalo Ramirez. This is confirmed by A “testimonio” by Domingo de Lomelin.

Here is part of the “testimonio.”

“Este dicho dia mes y año dicho para Dicha ynformasion queda Gonzalo de Hermosillo ordenante presento por testigo a domingo de lomellin español vecino desta juridision del cual el dicho Sr bicario resibiyo juramento que hiso por dio nuestro sr y la señal de la crus socargo del cual prometio desir berdad de lo que supiere y se le fuere preguntado y siendole por el tenor del ynterogatorio dijo que conose al dicho Gonzalo de Hermosillo desde que nasio y sabe ques yjo lijitimo de Sebastian Ramires y de Maria de Hermosillo a los cuales bydo casar en esta juridicion y asimismo sabe quel dicho Sebastian Ramirez fue yjo lijitimo de Gonzalo Rarmires y de Ysabel de Mendoza su su lijitima mujer y quel dicho Gonzalo Ramires era natural de las españas de San Lucar de Barameda Y la dicha Ysabel Mendoza era yja lijitima de Cristobal de Olibares y de Mariana de Mendoza su lijitima mujer”

In a marriage dispensation, Francisca Hurtado de Mendoza (aka Francisca de Mendoza) that is married to Francisco Gutierrez Rubio, is identified as a sister To Isabel Mendoza that we have already confirmed to be a daughter of Cristobal de Olibares y de Mariana de Mendoza.

The marriage dispensation that confirms that “Francisca de Mendoza” and “Isabel Mendoza” are sisters is right here:

https://sg30p0.familysearch.org/service/records/storage/dascloud/das/v2/3:1:9392-6GSC-ZG/dist.jpg?ctx=CrxCtxPublicAccess&header=Content-Disposition&headerValue=attachment%3B%20filename%3Drecord-image_.jpg

Bernabe Olivares is a son of Rodrigo Olivares and Maria Mendoza according to a marriage dispensation.

Thank you,
Rick A. Ricci

Cristobal de Olivares cc Mariana de Mendoza and Rodrigo de Olivares cc Maria de Mendoza are 2 different couples. Here’s Rodrigo de Olivares’ testamento, dated 12 Oct 1633 in San Luis Potosi. He was born in Puebla de los Angeles, Puebla, son of Juan de Olivares cc Francisca Rodriguez. His wife, Maria de Mendoza, was the daughter of Cristobal de Olivares and Mariana de Mendoza, of Lagos. They had been married for about 30 years when he submitted his will. This is explained on img422.
Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza and Francisca Hurtado de Mendoza were also daughters of Cristobal de Olivares cc Mariana de Mendoza.

Manny Díez Hermosillo

Hello Manny
Do you know how Alonso Alfonso) Olivares is related to them? Alfonso de Olivares was married to Josefa Esparza de Sotomayor. She is a descendant of lope Ruiz De Esparza and Ana Francisca Gabai Sotelo Moctezuma. Coach Tom Flores descends from Alfonso Olivares and Josefa.

Were Juan and Cristobal Olivares related?

Looking through my notes I found that you had previously provided me with the information that Rodrigo and Cristobal were two different people. Yet I still have many questions about this family as Bernabe is clearly the son of Rodrigo. Francisca and Isabel are the daughters of Cristoval. Who are the parents of Catalina?
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

Thank you, gentlemen, for your help! I truly appreciate your replies.

This is great information! Thank you all. At the same time, I am now very confused. I think I have a better understanding of the connection between the families in Jalisco and the families in Puebla. The testament helps support that. Now the big question is (ok I have several)... who are the parents of Mariana de Mendoza? I see on wikitree that she is shown as the daughter of Toribo Hernandez and Isabel de Mendoza, but I'm not sold on that connection with out something substantial to back it up. I say that because I understand the "Diccionario genealógico de las familias alteñas" (Gutiérrez-Hurtado de Mendoza) names the children of Toribio and Isabel as Ana Sanchez de Mendoza, Gabriel Sanchez, Juana Bautista, Ysabel de Mendoza, and Marta Sanchez de Mendoza. However, it fails to name a daughter named Mariana or Maria. Again, that's my understanding, but I could be wrong.

The following text is also found within the publication Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia: v. 1. Diccionario genealógico de las familias alteñas (Gutiérrez-Hurtado de Mendoza) by Mariano González-Leal:

"El Capitán Francisco II Gutiérrez Rubio, el Mozo, -segundo de su nombre-, fue hijo -el quinto, según se desprende de la edad con que se le refiere en diversas actuaciones- del Capitán Francisco I Gutiérrez-Rubio, el Viejo, y de doña Anna González-Florida. Debió nacer, como atrás se señala, por 1595. Hacia 1618 casó con doña Francisca Hurtado de Mendoza, nacida en jurisdicción de Jalostotitlán por 1599 hija de Rodrigo de Olivares y de doña María Hurtado de Mendoza..."

If this is true, then Catalina has to be their daughter as well. On December 28, 1692, Joseph Jimenez (Oliveras) and Josefa de Padilla Avila (Gutierrez) petitioned the Catholic Diocese for dispensation. Testimony provided during the inquiry confirms that Joseph is the grandson of Catalina de Mendoza and Josefa is the granddaughter of Francisca de Mendoza.

The dispensa can be seen here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4J1-J?i=223&wc=3J48-MN5%3A171935001%2C171974101%2C175712003&cc=1874591

So, the other big question I have... Are Francisca and Catalina the daughters of Rodrigo? I ask because Rikki said they were Cristobal's daughters. I did not see any mention of either woman in Rodrigo's testament.

One last question I'd like to toss out there. I know Jaime Holcombe often referred to Toribio Hernandez as Toribio Hernandez de Arellano. But I have yet to see a single document for him or his children that refers to him as anything other than Toribio Hernandez. Can anyone point to a document on FamilySearch that shows he used Arellano as part of his surname?

As always, the information sharing has been very insightful.

Raul

Too add even more to the confusion there is this record that has many of the same names that we have been discussing:

Ejecutoria del pleito litigado por Juan de Olivares, vecino de Toro (Zamora), con Francisca Rodríguez Capellana, viuda de Cristóbal de Oliva ...

Ejecutoria del pleito litigado por Juan de Olivares, vecino de Toro (Zamora), con Francisca Rodríguez Capellana, viuda de Cristóbal de Olivares, curadora de sus hijos, sobre hacer cuenta por inventario de todos los bienes dejados por Alonso de Olivares, para proceder a su división

reference code:ES.47186.ARCHV//REGISTRO DE EJECUTORIAS,CAJA 1412,54

I went back to look at the records I have for the four sisters, Catalina, Francisca, Isabel and Ysabel (I deliberately spell her name with a Y to help me distinguish between the two).
Here's what I found:

Dispensa confirms Francisca (cc Francisco Gutierrez Rubio) & Isabel (cc Luis Padilla) are sisters:
For Josefa Padilla (Francisca) & Joseph Jimenez (Isabel)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4J1-J?i=223&wc=3J48-MN5%3A171935001%2C171974101%2C175712003&cc=1874591

Dispensa confirms Ysabel (cc Juan Jimenez) and Isabel (cc Gonzalo Ramirez) are sisters:
For Miguel Hernandez de Rueda (Isabel) & Maria Macias Valadez (Ysabel)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-629H-7L?i=208&wc=12512688&cc=1874591

Dispensa confirms Catalina (Manuel Gomez) & Isabel (Luis Padilla) are sisters:
For Joseph Jimenez (Catalina) & Juan de la Mota Padilla (Isabel)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4J1-J?i=223&wc=3J48-MN5%3A171935001%2C171974101%2C175712003&cc=1874591

Dispensa confirms Ysabel (cc Juan Jimenez) and Francisca (cc Francisco Gutierrez Rubio) are sisters:
For Joaquin Gutierrez y Rubio (Francisca) & Luisa Macias Valadez (Ysabel)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-D2R8-7?i=341&cc=1874591

So if just one can be shown as the daughter of Cristobal or Rodrigo Olivares, then we have the father of all.

Raul

Since I don’t descend from them, I haven’t really researched the Olivares’ that much, but only as collateral lines. That said,

Rick asked: Do you know how Alonso/Alfonso Olivares is related to them?
No, I don’t know.
Rick asked: Were Juan and Cristobal Olivares related?
I don’t know.

For the children of Toribio Hernandez de Arellano cc Isabel de Mendoza, I have:
- Ana Sanchez de Mendoza cc Juan Becerra
- Mariana de Mendoza cc Cristobal de Olivares
- Gabriel Sanchez de Mendoza cc Isabel Sanchez de Lara
- Isabel Sanchez de Mendoza cc Alvaro de Ornelas
- Juana Bautista Sanchez de Mendoza cc Alonso de Quezada
- Marta Sanchez de Mendoza cc Juan Sanchez de Lara

I have the wife of Cristobal Olivares listed as “Mariana de Mendoza,” because that’s how her name is written when she appeared as a witness in the trial against Padre Alonso Lopez de Espinar, which I discussed in this thread.

For the children of Cristobal de Olivares cc Mariana de Mendoza, I have:
- Maria de Mendoza cc Rodrigo de Olivares
- Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza “la Mayor” cc Gonzalez Ramirez Santillana m2. Luis de Padilla Davila.
- Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza cc Manuel Gomez de Portugal
- Francisca Hurtado de Mendoza cc Francisco Gutierrez Rubio
- Isabel de Olivares y Mendoza “la Menor” cc Juan Jimenez

I am not 100% about these relationships; I think this is compiled from dispensations, Jaime Holcombe, and what’s been discussed here at NR. And I don’t recall if Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza “la Mayor” was married to Luis de Padilla Davila, or if they just had issue together.

I hope this was helpful!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Manny,

What information I do have is in line with what you presented. I don't have the same amount but what I do have does not conflict.

How did you confirm Ana Sanchez was married to a Juan Becerra? I haven't been able to locate her husband.

Alex

Hi Alex,

It’s funny that you ask that, because now that I look at what I have, while there are several dispensas that establish Ana Sanchez de Mendoza as the daughter of Toribio Hernandez de Arellano and Isabel de Mendoza, none of them explicitly state that she was married to Juan Becerra, only that she was the mother of Juan Becerra, who was married to Catalina Galindo. I guess it’s just naturally assumed that Juan Becerra was her husband. Maybe someone else has it sourced?
I’ve seen his name appearing in records:
On 21 Feb 1569, he was present during a cabildo (council meeting), and he was given the title “regidor.”
On 30 Aug 1590, he was present at the parish church door, when a towncryer announced that Juan Garcia de Santa Ana was to be granted some land (left image, second paragraph); Toribio Hernandez was present during one of the announcements, and gives a statement that appears in the right image, bottom. You’ll see names of other early residents on the same page.
I seem to remember seeing Juan Becerra’s name appear during the trial against parish priest, Padre Alonso Lopez de Espinar, in 1590-1592; I think, again, it was to say that he was present when something was taking place, but the writing was illegible.

Saludos,
Manny Díez Hermosillo

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