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Moctezuma II descendientes

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By AngelicaGarcia - Posted on 12 April 2019

Busco información y contactos con descendientes de Moctuzuma II, en particular con hijos de Leonor Valderrama de Moctezuma, madre de Petronila de Moctezuma.

Hi Rachel

I am afraid I don't have any other info on the Saavedras than what I already have posted. I have not seen any Saavendras on my family tree (YET!). Sorry I cannot give more help at this point. But if I come across any Saavedras in the very early records (1500s and 1600s) I will reply to your post here.
Regards
Denise

Hi Denise,

The furthest I can prove with records at the moment is the line from my mom to Lope Ruiz de Ezparza el menor and his wife Ana Francisca de Gabay or Navarro or whatever her father's name was. I have seen records or books naming Lope's parents but I don't have those records saved to Ancestry.com.

Cristobal de Valderrama was Mariana Leonor Moctezuma's second husband, father of Leonor Valderrama Moctezuma and father in law of Diego Arias de Sotelo. I have him as "de Valderrama" which is how I have seen him listed. I thought it was because he was from Valderrama, Burgos, Casile & Leon, Spain. It's near the border between Castile and Basque country. I've only seen his name in books which I didn't screenshot.

I am going to start doing that now. I've been reading other trees on Ancestry. A lot of them have notes and some have photos of records. I think a lot of people may keep their sources offline. I can't imagine knowing what someone did for a living without having a record.

Luisa Ortiz de Saavedra is my 13th Great Grandmother. Her father is listed as Diego Hortiz Saavedra on her marriage record. Her mother is listed as Catalina Munoz - however, the only record I can find for Diego - is a marriage to Catalina Gomez. I can see where it is possible for Catalina Munoz and Catalina Gomez to be the same person but I would need to see the records. I literally just discovered PARES and now I have to learn how to use it. I have records going from my mom to Luisa and Diego if you count the marriage certificate.

The reason the Saavedras caught my attention is that the name is unusual.

I'm doing all this research on my mom's distant ancestors because my father's side is a total dead end. The family is from Guanajuato and Galicia, Spain (allegedly) but I can't find anyone before 1800. The male line (allegedly) came to Guanajuato in 1820 but my great uncle who wrote the family history wasn't sure if they came directly from Galicia or to Cuba in the 1500s and Mexico in the 1800s.So here I am. I'm stubborn and I just got out of grad school. If something exists I will find it.

I'd do better if the names made sense. Is Don Diego Arias de Sotelo, Lord/Sir Diego Arias from Sotelo or is he Lord/Sir Diego Arias-Sotelo?

In case any of you don’t have this, here’s the 27 Aug 1594 IM of Cristobal Sotelo Valderrama and Juana de Heredia Patiño, hija de Baltasar de Vargas cc Francisca de Heredia. Apparently, Cristobal’s sister was “maliciously” opposed to this union. I don’t know if the marriage ever happened.

DIEGO ORTIZ DE SAAVEDRA

Rachel - according to the info that his son gave when taking his orders, the elder Diego Ortiz de Saavedra was from Almendralejo, Badajoz, Extremadura. His parents’ names aren’t given, but they were also residents of Almendralejo, Valladolid isn’t mentioned. Catalina Muñoz was daughter of Francisco Muñoz and Luisa de Nava, of Lagos.
Otherwise, Diego Ortiz was confirmed as alguacil mayor (high sheriff) of Lagos, Aguascalientes and Teocaltiche on 26 Feb 1611, as per PARES. That document doesn’t give any more info, other than his name is written Diego Ortiz de Saavedra y Paradas.

That’s interesting, what that book says about Beatriz mulata, the mother of the younger Diego Ortiz’s child, being accused of poisoning him. Her proceso criminal had her accused of poisoning this one’s nephew, who was also named Diego Ortiz. To call her “shameless” is ironic, seeing how Licenciado Diego Ortiz was the commissary of the Santo Oficio, whose job was to prosecute priests for that type of behavior (!!!). I doubt Beatriz had much say in the matter, having been born a slave. Age old story: blame the victim. She had a very compelling story, maybe I should write something about her.

I hope that helps!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Hi Manny

This is wonderful! Thanks for posting the link, I can see it states both Christobal's parents are deceased. Looking forward to trying the read why his sister was opposed to the marriage!

THe marriage did go through, and when Christobal died, Juana inherited his share of Ecatepec and then sued to get half of Christobal's sister's share of Ecatepec. Had she not done that, all of sister Ana's share would have gone to Fernando Sotelo de Moctezuma. (The three siblings had each inherited a third). This is described in more detail in Moctezuma's Children by Donald E. Chipman, p. 81.

Regards
Denise

Hi Rachel

I think it's best to use the honorific "Don".

Also, there was more than one Christobal de Valderrama, see Manny's post in this thread. :)

Regards
Denise

Denise - I’m not sure if it gives the reason why Ana Sotelo didn’t want her brother to marry - the document isn’t in very good condition and is a difficult read, but there doesn’t appear to be any details.

Rachel - I forgot to leave the link to Diego Ortiz de Saavedra el Mozo’s ordenes.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-DV99-CS?i=93&wc=SSKC-L29&cc=1874591

Here’s something of interest to anyone else who has Muñoz de Nava in their lines: while reviewing Diego Ortiz de Saavedra’s ordenes, I saw something I hadn’t noticed before: one of the testigos was Capitan Francisco Tavera, age 70+ (img100R). He says that he remembers when Diego Ortiz was baptized (on 12 Aug 1601), “because the previous year, this witness married Luisa de Nava, the grandmother of aforementioned Diego Ortiz.” That’s news to me - I’ve never seen any mention of this marriage before! That tells us that Francisco Muñoz died before 1600, when Luisa de Nava married Francisco Tavera. As to the identity of this Capitan Francisco Tavera, we should leave that for another thread.
Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Hi Manny,

I bought "Colonial Spanish America: A Documentary History" by Taylor and Mills because I saw screenshot of it somewhere in regard to Diego Ortiz de Saavedra. I had not idea there was more than one Diego Ortiz de Saavedra. As I read it, my 12th GGPs Luisa Ortiz de Saavedra and Juan Saez de Viduarre were upset because Diego, Jr. left Beatriz his property. Juan was the magistrate. Beatriz was the mistress of several notable local men in Lagos and she was a bitch to Diego Jr.'s slaves, regardless much to my GGPs chagrin she was aquitted. Beatriz had been freed for a while at this point.

The reason I thought Diego Sr. came from Valladolid is because I saw something stating that Luisa was born there but that doesn't mean he was from there. The Parada name comes from Maria Ortiz de Saavedra's children. She was Luisa's younger sister. She married Sebastian Parada. Since I'm currently researching my direct line, I don't know much about them but I will get to them at somepoint.

Thanks,

Rachel

That's Cristobal Sotelo Valderamma, Cristobal de Valderamma's grandson. I don't understand how the honorific "Don" would help distinguish them, aren't they both "Dons"? It *does* explain the source that I saw that thought Cristobal, Sr. was a Sotelo.

Ana was a nun, perhaps Juana was of a similar disposition to Beatriz but without the extenuating circumstances.

Ana and Cristobal, Jr. (and Fernando) bring us back to Petronila Moctezuma, mother in law of Lope Ruiz de Esparza and "grand daughter of Moctezuma". Cristobal, Jr., Ana and Fernando were Moctezuma's great-grandchildren and Petronila's sibling based on the most common place she is placed in the genealogies.

I found a document in Somos Primos when I was looking up the de Anda-Altamiranos (another of my Lagos lines) which also read "Don Diego Ortiz de Saavedra, alguacil mayor y también de los primeros pobladores de Lagos, cuando él muere, su esposa, Doña Catalina Muñoz de Jerez." vs Catalina Munoz de Nava. I also show a Cathalina Lopez de Nava as the wife of Juan Gomez de Portugal. My sources are starting to contradict themselves!

The document is almost to the bottom of the page it's called La Hacienda de San Nicola de Frias by Guillermo Padilla Origel

http://www.somosprimos.com/sp2002/spnov02.htm#MEXICO

Now I'm off to attempt to read "Vecinos de casa poblada: Los Gómez de Portugal de Santa María de los Lagos, 1563-1810" by Dra. Lina Mercedes Cruz Lira of the University of Guadalajara. Hmmm... I may want to see if I can get in during her office hours when I'm down there. I can speak Spanish it's reading it that is hard for me. Below is a link if anyone is intersted.

https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=RwunDwAAQBAJ&rdid=book-RwunDwAAQBAJ&rdot=1&source=gbs_vpt_read&pcampaignid=books_booksearch_viewport

Dear Rachel,

If you have done lots of research you will find that sometimes sources contradict each other. You then need More research and mental gymnastics to figure our the possible reasons for the contradictions and the true ancestry. There is another contradiction in the ancestry of the Gómez de Portugal ancestry. One ancestry shows Diego Gómez de Portugal to be a great-grandson of a king of Portugal, while another ancestry shows a different great grandfather

Good Luck in your research,
Rick

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