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Moctezuma II descendientes

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By AngelicaGarcia - Posted on 12 April 2019

Busco información y contactos con descendientes de Moctuzuma II, en particular con hijos de Leonor Valderrama de Moctezuma, madre de Petronila de Moctezuma.

What date is on this document?

________________________________
From: Research on behalf of sarod77@hotmail.com
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 10:35 AM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Leonor

Thank you. I too cannot easily read the early writings but can make out the
request Vro. (Vruestro +Nuestro Hijo) and other words but it is clear Leonor
nieta de Moctesuma. Once again thanks for the hard copy of evidence.

27 May 1573

Thank you

________________________________
From: Research on behalf of josehumbertosuarez@hotmail.com
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 2:49 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] 27 May 1573

27 May 1573

The earliest evidence that I had previous to this find was 1574. This find has a date of 27 May 1573 so it is the earliest evidence that I know of.

Thank you Denise,

Rick A.Ricci

Hi SImona

Thanks for the link - it works!

Regards
Denise

Hi Rick and others who have responded to my comment.

I looked back through earlier comments and found one by Raul Munoz who describes this early decree - he mentions this document in a comment here is this thread on 2019-10-08 21:28. My apologies to Raul, that I forgot I had seen his earlier post!

I think the significance of the document must lie in the fact that the Leonor de Valderrama who is identified at the mother of Fernando and wife of Diego Arias Sotelo, is also identfied as the granddaughter of Moctezuma, and that the document was created - timewise - close to Moctezuma and people who knew him and his children. This should help settle the debate about whether the wife of Diego Arias Sotelo also descended from Cortez (she did not...).

There is another entry in PARES, Archivo General de Indias - licencia de pasajeros a criados de Leonor de Valderrama - from 1546, but unfortunately there are no images of it, so its not possible to confirm its the Leonor Valderrama subject of these comments. Its possible this document has already been mentioned somewhere in NR.... Note (from Chipman's Moctezumas Children p. 76): Mariana/Leonor Moctezuma's first husband Juan Paz died by 1529, "and about two years later, Mariana married Christobal de Valderrama" who then died at the end of 1537. So, Leonor wife of Diego Arias Sotelo could have been old enough to request two servants, or else her mother or guardian (Diego Sotelo) could have done so.

Anyway, again, apologies to Raul that I jumped the gun about the royal decree - I will try to be more careful in the future!

Regards
Denise

I got a family tree from a distant cousin. I am still trying to sort the truth from fiction. Ironically, I had ironed out the link to Moctezuma that I thought was iffy when I found out Petronilla was iffy.

I get to royalto via Pedro de Sotelo, the alleged father of both Antonio de Sotelo (Diego's father) and Christobal Valderrama. I have to look at my records but I believe I proved Antonio is the son of Pedro but I don't know why I have Cristobal as the son of Pedro de Sotelo and Ines Cisneros. Pedro de Sotelo goes to a King of Portugal, once I got there I just used history sites.

I found a lot of info here: https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/ which ancestry.com uses as a source. However, now that I have more experience in online genealogical research, I am not sure what type of site it is and if its reliable. I'm not sure if it's a European Records repository similar to Family Search or a crowd sourced tree like WikiTree.

I just found this by googling but who put it up there and is it sourced:
http://ojocaliente.nfshost.com/getperson.php?personID=I2475&tree=1A

I keep running into out of print books written in Mexico and Spain as sources for both my famous and my unfamous ancestors. My Spanish is atrocious but I am willing to give it a try if I can find the book (or ship them to Mexico so my aunt or cousin can read it).

I'll keep looking and posting. I may start actually using Roots Magic vs. Ancestry.com as my source of truth so I can download everything.

Cheers!

Rachel

He is supposed to be a De Sotelo (brother of Antonio, uncle of Diego) but I have to look at my notes to see where I got that information. I think it was a screenshot of one of those out of print books that drive me insane. I have a giant tree from a distant cousin that I have been sourcing for 4 years! The darn thing is huge and unsourced.

I'll get back to you when I find it.

Hi Rick and Denise,

Can you fill me in on the Saavedras? I found a couple of them in the records on Ancestry.com. Luisa Ortiz de Saavedra wife of Juan Saez De Vidaurri in 1620. Her parents are listed as Diego Hortiz Saavedra and Carolina Muñoz. These Saavedras are from Valladolid Spain. Juan Saenz is from Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico, where generations of my ancestors seem to have lived for generations. Diego is a dead end because there are too many people with similar names. A younger Diego Ortiz was a priest in Lagos who had a child with a "shameless mulatta" named Beatriz who later poisoned him as per "Colonial Spanish America: A Documentary History edited by Kenneth Mills, William B. Taylor"

I've ordered a copy from Amazon becuase it appears to cover Lagos.

Thanks!

Rachel

Hi Rachel

It's wonderful to see your enthusiasm! There will be brick walls, but the only thing to do it move on to another branch for a while where you can make progress. I find that if I take a break from one line, and pick it up later, I discover new info or see something I overlooked.

My best advice is to rely on original documents - church or civil records of birth, marriage, death, infomacion matrimoniales, etc. - I use FamilySearch and sometimes ancestry as a way in. Other - secondary - sources can point you in the right direction, give you a good lead, but I would not base my family tree on these (published article and books by historians who provide their sources are another matter though). I save links, source citations, and screenshots in google docs, and print out now and then. This is especially important when a film is not indexed and has to be reviewed image by image. The work is very painstaking, but also rewarding when you make a discovery that pushes a line back one more generation, or you find out something you did not expect.

Regarding Antonio de Sotelo, father of Diego Arias de Sotelo, the consensus from the earlier posts is that no document has been found that shows how he is related to the other Sotelos of Zamora. All we know for sure are the names of his brothers and parents, as they are mentioned in the record of the "conspiracion" trial of Martin Cortez and his co-defendants and in the document Confirmacion de Oficio where Diego Arias Sotelo is confirmed for the office of regidor (parents named). It would be great to see what you have on this issue.

You mention Christobal de Valderrama - I am wondering if you mean the son of Diego Arias de Sotelo and Leonor Valderrama?

Good Luck with your research!

Regards
Denise

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