You are hereForums / Genealogy Research / ALONSO DE ESTRADA, HIJO DE …

ALONSO DE ESTRADA, HIJO DE …

warning: Creating default object from empty value in /home/lafamilia/nuestrosranchos.com/sites/all/modules/mailhandler/mailhandler.module on line 123.

By jrefugioghermosillo - Posted on 12 January 2019

Several of us descend from Alonso de Estrada, royal treasurer and colonial governor of Nueva España, during the time of Cortés. Legend has him as the bastard son of Rey Fernando II el Catolico and a Luisa de Estrada, daughter of an ambassador. This is refuted by the 1585 limpieza de sangre of his great-grandson, Gobernador Jorge de Alvarado y Villafañe, which names Alonso de Estrada’s parents as Juan Fernandez Hidalgo, of Ciudad Real, and his first wife - whose name none of the witnesses could remember, only that his 2nd wife was surnamed Oliver. It did name his paternal grandparents as Diego Fernandez Hidalgo and Maria Gonzalez de Estrada. That document can be found at the PARES website, and it is digitized in its entirety, if you want to read it, though it is long and a hard read. It is the only historical document that I know of that names the father of Alonso de Estrada. Until now…and believe me, this one is a MUCH easier read!

I was grazing through the Mexican Inquisition archives, and I randomly came upon this. It’s the limpieza and proof of nobility of Licenciado Alvaro Gomez de Abaunza y Castro, oidor de la Audiencia de Guatemala, and later alcalde de crimen de la Audiencia de Mexico, and of his wife, Doña Isabel Costilla de Saavedra. It appears to be dated 11 Dec 1608. While glancing through their lines, I noticed that she was great-great granddaughter of Alonso de Estrada and Doña Marina Flores de la Caballeria, and to my amazement, it names their parents! I jumped out of my chair!

According to her prueba de nobleza, Alonso de Estrada’s father was Juan Fernandez de Estrada, corresponding with the 1585 Jorge Alvarado limpieza, but it names his mother as Luisa de Oliver. She might be the N. de Oliver mentioned in the 1585 limpieza, making her Fernandez’s second wife, and therefore step-mother of Alonso de Estrada - unless his father married sisters, which is totally possible.

Either way, while the identity of his mother might still be in doubt, we now have a second document confirming that Alonso de Estrada was son of Juan Fernandez de Estrada, aka Juan Fernandez Hidalgo, who, according to the entry for Marina de Estrada (img249L), was:

“hijo segundo de la Casa de Estrada que bino de asturias a ciudad real, donde fue casado con doña luisa de oliver vezina de la dicha ciudad y fundo el mayorazgo de la Villa de Picon y de otras haciendas suyas…”

“the second son of the House of Estrada, who came from Asturias to Ciudad Real, where he married doña Luisa de Oliver, native of said city, and who founded the mayorazgo of the Villa de Picon, and of other haciendas in his possession…”

So, it’s looking more and more like there was no royal bastard birth for our infamous ancestor, Alonso de Estrada, and that it was just a legend, that probably grew from a popular joke, regarding his rapid ascent to power. I loved the idea of descending from a bastard son of the Catholic King - I love the irony, and I was thrilled when I first read about it, but these pieces of the puzzle keep popping up and bursting that bubble!

All the same, Alonso de Estrada’s life story is just as compelling, and even more impressive, if he did it without being of royal blood. It shows how a man can go from being a low-head-on-the-totem-pole holder of a señorio in Ciudad Real, to being governor of and one of the most powerful figures in one of the Crown’s newest acquisitions.

This prueba also gives a genealogy of his wife, Doña Marina Flores de la Caballeria, naming her parents and paternal grandparents, though it mistakenly names her grandfather as Alonso Gutierrez de la Caballeria, when it was his brother, Comendador Gonzalo Gutierrez: her grandmother, Doña Catalina de Luna, married brothers, sons of Men Gutierrez de la Caballeria cc Catalina de la Cabra. It does mention that Doña Catalina de Luna was niece of Alvaro de Luna, Condestable de Castilla, which is super cool, and shows how connected these Sefardi families were to the centers of power. By the way, there is no mention of Doña Marina being descended from Conversos, which is discussed in depth in the 1585 limpieza. I guess too many generations had passed.

I recommend reading this limpieza y prueba. The script is highly legible, and it’s laid out in columns, by relationships and by generations, with biographies of each ancestor. It’s like an encyclopedia: Alvaro Gomez de Abaunza and Isabel Costilla had some illustrious ancestors, back in Spain, and in Colonial Mexico and Guatemala - primeros conquistadores y pobladores, some really good stuff, and I’m sure some of you will make some connections.
Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Hi Rick,

I don't know if this would work with my sample, since I descend from Alfonso XI and most ancestors of Fernando II.

Thanks,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Manny,

Do you descend from them based on ancestors discussed on the forum or through other ancestors? Just curious because I have a hard enough time finding my first ancestors for each line in Mexico, let alone making the leap to Spain! I'm jealous!

Alex

Hi Alex,

No, it's through other lines. I've got a few gateway ancestors, among them Diego de Guevara y Tovar (early regidor of Mexico City) and Juan Alonso de Sosa (Alonso de Estrada's successor and son-in-law). For the most part, I usually track my Mexican ancestors back to the first one to arrive on the continent and stop there, but there's been a lot of work done on these guys, being historical figures. When I have more time, I'll work on the earlier Spanish stuff.

Hope you're well!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Ahh gotchya, congrats getting that far!

Hi Manny,

If you keep sending me pearls I will never finish my book! Another thread that you sent me shows another connection in Spain. As you already know, a big part of my book is to show how many of the families are already related before they came over to the Americas. Not only has your find provided more confirmation, in my eyes, that Alonso Estrada is King Ferdinands’s son, you also have helped me connect another one of your ancestors to Alonso Estrada’s maternal line. This first wife of Juan Fernandez Estrada s the sister of another of your ancestors. Even the people who disagree with the conclusion that king Ferdinand is the father of Alonso Estrada will find much information in my book as I provide Juan Fernandez Estrada’s and his wife’s ancestry, and show how they are connected to our other ancestors.

Happy President’s day,
May we thank God for the many great presidents that we have had in the past such as Lincoln, Washington, both Roosevelt’s, both Adams, and Jefferson. Many (most) of these presidents are also distantly related to us as their ancestors were distant cousins of Alfonso XI De Castilla because they all descended from king Henry II Plantagenet and Queen Eleanor of Aquitaine, King and Queen Of England.

Thanks again Manny for your many contributions to my research,
Rick A. Ricci

Hi Manny
Do you descend from Juan Alonso De Sosa Estrada y Mariana De Guevara Barrios? If so, I would really love to see the line of descent from them and add it to my book. I have done much work on their ancestors. I have them connecting to many families.

Thanks,
Rick

For those of you that thought that I turned over the cart when I said that the dispensa provided evidence shows that King Ferdinand was the illegitimate father of Alonso Estrada, you will be even more surprised, shocked, as I was, to discover that King Ferdinand’s first marriage to Isabella was not sanctioned by the church due to the political climate and that they married by forging their names on a marriage dispensation that had been written for another couple. They, therefore, were never legally married by the Catholic Church. How ironic since they are commonly known as the Catholic King and Queen. Many English, French, and Spanish nobles, including heads of state from other countries were against the marriage alliance of these two. This placed the Vatican in a corner as they didn’t want to anger so many powerful people. This dispensation was not disclosed as fraudulent because while the Vatican knew it was forged, it relieved them from entering into the political fight over the marriage as the dispensation was signed by the previous authority.
You will also be surprised that Pedro Gonzalez De Lara was recognized as Queen Uracca’s husband and that Fernan Perez Hurtado was recognized as legitimate. The Hurtado surname was not because he was born in secrecy but to distinguish him from the many other distinguished noblemen at that time also named Fernan Perez.

Rick A. Ricci
Source: Mygenes2000

There was not just one ambassador of King Ferdinand’s to England. During that time period An ambassador was usually an appointment for a relatively brief mission. Juan Fernandez Estrada’s brother’s appointment as ambassador was for a much longer time period due to the nature of his negotiations. This made his brother more well known as an ambassador, which then led many genealogists to mistakenly claim that he was the father of Luisa Estrada.

Rick A. Ricci
Source: mygenes2000

Hi Rick,

Yes, in a hurry to seal their union, the Catholic Monarchs procured a papal bull, supposedly signed by the previous pope, that allowed Fernando II to marry any eligible princess related to him within 3 degrees. Very convenient! Nevertheless, their marriage was dispensed and legitimized in 1471 with the Bula de Simancas, issued by the following pope.

As far as “turning over the cart” re: Alonso de Estrada’s paternity: I’ve still seen nothing that convinces me that the 2 limpiezas I’ve cited are forgeries. To paraphrase Jaime Holcombe, “As Juan de Arrigunaga used to say: ‘Una genealogia que no está probada con documentos fidedignos, es pura vacilada.’ (“A genealogy that isn’t proven with unimpeachable documents is a pure joke.”). But recognizing the possible non-existence of primary sources explicitly stating that Fernando II is Alonso de Estrada’s father, I’m willing to wait until the release of MG2K, to see your work, and to see how the pieces fall into place. So, please please please don’t feel forced to reveal anything here (i.e. “spoilers”), that you might want to save for the publication of your book. I am truly looking forward to it. Flip that cart for us! :)

Re: the Alvarado limpieza, though Maria Hernandez Hidalgo’s genealogy has holes in it, I don’t think they have anything to do with her age or disability: my mother is 88 years old and half-deaf, and can still rattle off names of people she hasn’t seen in over 70 years - and their family members. Maria Hernandez cited what she heard from her father, and from her aunts that raised her after his death, which would explain any holes. Besides, she wasn’t the only witness who claimed Juan Fernandez was Alonso de Estrada’s father, nor was she the first (she just gave the most complete genealogy).

I downloaded that limpieza a couple of years ago, and I have extensive notes, which I just located. The investigation was done in May 1584 in Ciudad Real, here’s a complete list of witnesses and their ages:

ANTONIO GALIANO BERMUDES 60
FRAY HIERONIMO TREBIÑO 60
BACHILLER JUAN DE AREVALO 67
FRANCISCA MORAN 60
MATHEO DEL SAL 57
JUAN MEXIA DE LOAISA 70+
ANTONIO DE POBLETE 70+
JUAN POBLETE DE LA MORA 60+
RODRIGO DE MORA BAÑEZ DE LA SERDA 71
GERONIMO DE HERRERA 60+
PRIORA DE GRACIA FRANCª MEXIA 50
ALº DE ROJAS PROCURADOR SINDICO DESTA CIUDAD 52
MARI HERNANDEZ HIDALGO 70
DON FRANCISCO DE GAMES 50
LICENᵈº ALº MANÇANO CURA 40
ALº DE LA CAMARA DE OCES 60
BERNARDINO DE VALDELAMAR 61
LOPE FERNANDEZ CARRILLO 70
JUO RODRIGUEZ DE LLAMA 70
JUAN DE LARA 75
LUIS DE POBLETE OLIVER 40
ANTONIO FERNANDEZ TORRES ESCRIBANO PUBLICO 45
ANA PRADO 70
FRAY DIEGO DE HERRERA 35
BACHILLER JUAN DE AREVALO
ANTONIO DE OLIVER 50
LUIS BERMUDES 66
JUAN RODRIGUEZ DE GUZMAN 59
PEDRO VILLAFRANCO 90
LUIS DE FIGUEROA 60+
JUAN DE COTILLO 80
CRISTOBAL PEREZ FAMILIAR DEL STO OFICIO 74
PEDRO CASADO CLERIGO 74
JUAN DE VILLAFRANCA QUIROGA 58
PASCUAL RRUIZ DE LA FRANCA 50
GASPAR DE JAEN 50
ANDRES ABBAD FAMILIAR DEL STO OFICIO 50

Though the Alonso de Estrada genealogy might still be dubious, it does name supposed descendants of Juan Fernandez’s brother, which might help you shore up your work. And then there’s a wealth of info on the Gutierrez de la Caballeria, including mention of ejecutorias that named them hidalgos and “Cristianos Viejos,” allowing them to hold offices with the Crown and the military and religious orders. Rick, how can I get these to you? (and to others: please don’t ask; I plan on using these down the line, and I offer these only to Rick, to help him with his book. Thank you for understanding :).

Here’s the limpieza of Guiomar de Avalos y Bocanegra cc Juan de Alcocer.
Which includes that of her grandfather, Juan Gutierrez Bocanegra.

And here’s the limpieza of Geronima de Mazariegos cc Pedro de Heredia, taking her back to Fernando Hidalgo cc Francisca de Mazariegos (which confirms Maria Hernandez Hidalgo’s testimony, regarding the Mazariegos’ link to this line).

By the way, I agree with Rick that “Hidalgo” isn’t the surname, but the family’s rank; throughout the Alvarado Limpieza, witnesses refer to Doña Marina’s father as “Juan Gutierrez Lanero,” one witness explaining that that was his trade (a “lanero” deals in wool).

Un abrazo,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Hi Manny,

The first dispensation used for Ferdinand's and Isabela's wedding was originally not for them . The previous pope didn’t write a blank dispensa for Ferdinand, especially when there was so much discussion over who should be the rightful ruler of Castilla. Ferdinand had been engaged to marry someone else when the previous Pope was in power. England and France were also sticking their hand in the pot, and the current Pope was stuck with his back against a wall, knowing that whatever decision he made was going to be met with displeasure by many of the people. So the Pope did nothing and let it play out. It worked to the Popes favor that he didn’t have to decide anything until much later. Dispensing and legitimizing the marriage in 1471 wouldn’t have been necessary if the first one had been legitimate.

The two limpiezas that you are saying are proof of the identity of Alonso Estrada’s father raises many questions as they are not discussing the same Estrada family. The two men mentioned are not the same people, so both limpienzas cannot be considered in conjunction as proof of your point that he is not the son of King Ferdinand. The limpeza that you found, and mention in this thread has the same Estrada family that I have as Alonso Estrada's maternal ancestors. some genealogists have the father listed in the other limpieza as the husband that Luisa Estrada married years after her relationship with King Ferdinand. This would make him Alonso Estrada's stepfather, not his biological father. But this husband of Luisa Estrada did not raise him as he was raised in King Ferdinand's court. Alonso Estrada actually was closer to King Ferdinand than his other illegitimate son. Alfonso D'Aragon.

When Charles was in power, he kept in contact with his two uncles, Alonso Estrada (aka Alonso Duque Estrada) and Alfonso d’Aragon and furthered their political careers. He gave both of them political power and asked them to help run things. Alfonso D’Aragon exercised his political power as he rose up in the ranks of the church.

The witnesses quoted in limpiezas written many years later giving different versions versus the statements that were made during King Ferdinand’s and Alonso’s lifetimes is the heart of this dispute. What I can give you definitely is the family tree of the Juan Fernandez Estrada from the second limpieza along with his first wife’s name and ancestors.

Some may argue that King Ferdinand would not have named two of his illegitimate sons by the same name as Alonso and Alfonso are variations of the same name, but they both had different complete names as one was known as Alonso Estrada, aka Alonso Duque Estrada, while the other was known as Alfonso D'Aragon. King Ferdinand also named two of his illegitimate daughters by the same name, Maria.

Alonso Estrada was not a "Duque". An ancestor of Alonso"s was nicknamed "Duque" without holding the title. When he inherited the "Estrada Tower" he then was known as "Duque Estrada." This Duque Estrada family was not a merging of the Duque family with the Estrada family as some have claimed. The Duque Estrada family intermarried often with cousins marrying cousins, and uncles marrying nieces so that may be why some people may have come to the conclusion that there was a merging of two family surnames to make one new one.

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Navigation

Who's online

There are currently 0 users and 0 guests online.

Languages