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Victor Velos and related famililies: brick walls

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By stephmartinez316 - Posted on 02 July 2018

maria antonia velos in family search and or ancestry.com who is married to rafael martinez is my 5th great grandparents. maria antonia velos comes from a area known as grangenos, mexico in 1804. parents from what i had found so far happens to be victor velos or vela and maria guadalupe cordero. parents of victor velos was known to be as nazario velos and dorotea garcia? any areas i should be looking for? so far it is a dead end

i just looked at this family for only a few minutes so i don't know all that you know but there seems to be something going on here and i'm not sure what it is. possibly some sort of cover up for illegitimacy or just a lot of bad scribes that aren't paying attention.

on the marriage of your Maria Antonia Velos and Rafael Martinez he's listed as the son of Simon Martinez and Rosalia Delgadillo and Maria Antonia Velos is listed as the illegitimate daughter of Maria Antonia Velos. That should normally end the discussion but all the baptisms say something different. If all the baptisms agreed I would say the baptisms were correct but since all the baptisms say something different that sort of points to the marriage record that Maria Antonia Velos is the illegitimate daughter of another Maria Antonia Velos.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VBSJ-DN

The baptism of Rafael Martinez and Maria Antonia Velos's daughter Praxedis Martinez lists Maria Antonia Velos as the daughter of Nazario Velos and Dorotea Garcia:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NTQS-5X4

The baptism of Rafael Martinez and Maria Antonia Velos's daughter Julia Martinez lists Maria Antonia Velos as the daughter of Valentino Velos and Maria Guadalupe:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N2ZJ-1ZF

The baptism of Rafael Martinez and Maria Antonia Velos's son Herculano Martinez lists Maria Antonia Velos as the daughter of Victor Velos and Guadalupe Cordero:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N2ZV-8GM

The baptism of Rafael Martinez and Maria Antonia Velos's son Mauro Martinez lists Maria Antonia Velos as just the daughter of Guadalupe Velos:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JS3X-WW1

Now there's always errors on records that's just the way it is but this is a lot of errors.

Valentino Velos and Guadalupe Lopez are a real couple and that's close to what's written on the baptism of Julia Martinez and they did have a daughter born in February 1804 in Santa MAria de los Lagos named MAria Antonia Velos which may be your actual Maria Antonia Velos:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J9YD-KZ7

The last one may be correct but it still seems odd that the marriage lists her as the illegitimate daughter of MAria Antonia Velos.

in my tree i shows a valentino velos married to maria guadalupe cordero and is parents to maria antonia velos. yep that is the ara and or birthdate for her . and i do agree too many indescrepancies with the records so it made it rather confusing to continues on the lineages of these particular families so far.

Since Guadalupe Lopez also uses cordero she might be the daughter of Jose Lopez de Ortigoza and Mariana de los Dolores Cordero y Flores

Hello Steph.

I completely agree with dcalonso.

There are two facts fully supported by documents:

1.- Maria Antonia married to Rafael Martinez is the one christened on 28 Feb 1804, the daughter of Valentino Velos and Guadalupe Lopez.

According to the christening record Maria Antonia was born in "El Grangero", the same place stated in the marriage record.

Maria Antonia and Rafael had a daughter named Maria Petra, perhaps their firstborn. She was christened on 04 Feb 1823. Her maternal grandparents are listed "Valentino Velos y Guadalupe Lopes" in the christening record of Maria Petra.

2.- Maria Antonia was not the biological daughter of Valentino and Guadalupe.

According to the "Informacion Matrimonial" Maria Antonia was the daughter of another Maria Antonia Velos. The first paragraph says:

"... comparecio Simon Martinez Padre legitimo de Rafael Martinez y Maria Antonia Velos Madre Natural de Maria Antonia Velos y dixeron que de su pura, y libre voluntad dan sus consentimientos para que los referidos sus Hijos puedan entre si contraher matrimonio ...

Maria Antonia's mother gave her permission for the marriage in person. There is no doubt that Maria Antonia was the biological daughter of the other Maria Antonia Velos.

ty for the clarifications after going back in my tree i also had noticed the same as mentioned fixing dates as i goes along. in the case of valentino velos and guadalupe lopes 3 childrens records were found by names of maria antonia, Hermion and Maria Ylaria Velos. the names that i have for valentinos parents are nazario velos and dorotea garcia who is my 7th great grandparents. the only record i can find in jalisco that matches well enough to birthdate to his is this record:https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Anazario~%20%2Bsurname%3Avelos~%20%2Bbirth_place%3Ajalisco%2Cmexico~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1750-1756~

which is the closest i have came on this line since working on it . in family search record for jalisco, mexico lists a joseph nazario velos parents as juana maria no last maiden name and juachin velos.?

Hello Steph.

1. Valentino and Guadalupe had at least one more son: Jose Toribio. He was christened on 1 Apr 1793:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N1TB-9P8

2. About the parents of Valentino:
It's very strange that the maternal grandparents listed in the christening record of Rafael and Maria Antonia's daughter Praxedis are Nazario Velos and Dorotea Garcia, the same names you have for Valentino's parents. So Maria Antonia would be placed as the sister of Valentino instead of Valentino's daughter.

on the subject of valentinos and or maria antonia parents who are they exactly so i make sure that it is done correctly in my tree.

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