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Help Deciphering Last Name (Abbreviations) and Barrio/Rancho locations

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By Raramosa - Posted on 04 April 2018

Hi!

If any of you would have the time, I would appreciate if one could help me decipher the following in the record below:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KHLM-6?i=39&wc=3J6S-GP8%3A172708001%2C172708002%2C174887101&cc=1874591

Specifically, I am interested in the marriage entry for Jose Ramos (Yndio) and Maria Patricia (Yndia).

I am aware Jose's parents are Sevastian Ramos (please verify that the abbreviation in the image is for Sevastian) and Nicolasa Juana. However, I have no idea what the rancho is supposed to be that comes after his name. If someone could decipher it, I would appreciate it, and if someone knew where it was (at least in relation to Sayula so I can do further research) I would appreciate it.

As for his wife, I have figured out her name and her parents' names but I would also appreciate the help with regards to her geographic origination.

I can read Spanish well, so if you can help in Spanish or English I would appreciate it.

Thanks!

Rafa

Hi Rafa,

It's been a long time since I looked at any records but here's what I see:

En veinte de junio de mil setecientos setenta y cuatro, se casaron y velaron in facie ecclesie, Jose Ramos, indio, de Barrio de San Mateo hijo legitimo de Sebastian Ramos, difunto, y de Nicolasa Juana y Maria Patricia, india, de Barrio de Adviento, hija legitima de Sebastian Pablo, difunto, y de Maria Bartola, a quienes hice sus informaciones y se publicaron en los dias veintinueve de mayo, tres y cinco del presente de que no resultó impedimento; fueron testigos Domingo Luis y Sebastian Damian y padrinos Pedro Manuel y Maria Micaela y lo firme como parroco:

Francisco de Dios Sobrado

Chris

Thank you! Any idea about what a barrio is in comparison to a rancho at that time? Is it like an Indian "rancho" or site? A street name?

I believe that a barrio would be a smaller section of a town or city within its main residential section. A rancho pertaining to a town may be outside the main town or city. The rancho may be inside city limits, but usually it is outside the main residential areas of the town.

A cousin of mine owns a small rancho inside a barrio of a town so that is also possible. The town grew and built around his small rancho. On one side of the river is the main town. As you pass over the river you can see his rancho immediately to the left. just past his rancho, there was another rancho that bacame a barrio as they divided it up into lots and built up that whole area. So my cousins rancho is its own ranch, and surrounded by the residential areas of the town. His rancho is considered to be part of the newer barrio. It is relatively newer. When I was a kid it was already a small barrio that people made fun of and still called it a ranch. Sixty years later, it is a large residential section with many large and beautiful homes.

Thank you.

Is there a specific forum where we can get help with reading records after we have found them?

I would hate to pester this forum with questions about helping me read the documents, but with older entries and poor handwriting it is very difficult for me to catch everything that is written other than names and even then some abbreviations are foreign to me.

Hello Rafael,

I have found this forum to be a great place to get help in reading records. It is ok “to pester this forum with questions about helping me read the documents”. But if you are a serious researcher you need to work on learning how to decipher documents since relying all the time for someone else to do it for you will place a big limitation on how much research you can get done. Genealogy research takes a lot of time and much patience. I have gone months without finding any information, and then suddenly, I find a thread that leads to a treasure trove. Sometimes it takes a long time to unravel the thread. It is often easy to overlook a thread and that is why we researchers need to go back and review documents, looking for the smallest clues. These threads or clues may be missed if you don’t pick up strategies and practice in finding them. And you aren’t wasting another researcher’s time in asking for help. I have gained much knowledge and practice by helping others decipher records. In fact, the lessons learned by helping others has rewarded me immensely, both personally and in my research.

Even with my many decades of researching, I occasionally ask for help from nuestrosranchos members in deciphering records. I am extremely grateful for this help as it has contributed greatly towards my research. About a decade ago I put together a family tree that extended from Nueva España to Spain and the rest of Europe over a nine hundred years. The problem was that I had discovered a family tree that another famous European researcher had also discovered, except his family tree had a couple major differences as the other researcher named different maternal grandparents than my research had uncovered. For a few of years I couldn’t understand why our research and conclusions differed. But it was from help that I received by nuestrosranchos members Manny Hermosillo and Steven F. Hernandez Lopez, and others, in discovering how researchers sometimes mistakenly interpret information that I was able to understand why the other researcher had differences in the family tree that he published.

If it hadn’t been for Manny Hermosillo and Steven F. Hernandez I might never of published my book with the correct family tree since I did not want to publish while there was doubt as to which line was correct. With their help I was able to see clearly where, and how, the other researcher was led down the wrong path. I know Manny and Steven were not happy when with all of their immense experience in researching they made a mistake in concluding a family line, but it was precisely the fact that here were two genealogists, that are hard working, and have had much practice, and they still were led to a mistaken conclusion that I was able to see that the situation that brought about the erroneous conclusion was the same situation that the Famous European genealogists had used to come up with his mistaken family tree. Of course Both Manny and Steven were not overjoyed with this learning experience when it concerned their work, but it was this learning experience that showed how/why the European genealogists had come up with his different family tree. Both Manny Hermosillo and Steven Hernandez have helped me tremendously in other parts of my research, and not just in this family tree. I am tremendously grateful for their tremendous help and they both deserve to be acknowledged for this in my book. The book isn’t yet published as it is in the process of being revised and edited.

Good luck in your research,
Rick A. Ricci

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