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Soria Search Inquiry

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By ICSoria - Posted on 12 April 2015

I have searched extensively but so far am unable to locate documents for my paternal Great-great-grandfather Barbaro Soria, although I have found his children, which gave names of his father and grandfather. The Soria family settled in the areas of Moyahua, Juchipila and Nochistlan, in Zacatecas, Mexico. I am familiar with the origins of the Soria name but cannot make a specific connection from Mexico back to their native Spain. They may have settled Central Mexico by way of the Gulf, or through South America, and maybe even from the Pacific side. I have been searching ancillary records such as day-by-day "defunciones," however, specific records in my searches are either missing for those particular years I wish to search, or are in "desorden" and offer no starting point. I wonder if anyone has connections to people in the area who could direct me perhaps to other church records I may not have seen. Perhaps even burial records in Moyahua, Juchipila and Nochistlan. I would welcome any new information.
My Grandfather, Juan Soria was born at El Ranchito, in Juchipila, 11 Feb 1888. His maternal side, Villalobos, has deep roots in Nochistlán. His father, Teodocio, was born at Mesquituta, in Moyahua, Zacatecas, 26 Mar 1867. I found no documents for Teodocio’s father, grandfather, or great-grandfather, names respectively: Barbaro Soria (wife – Sostenes Luna), Juan Soria (wife – Justa Estrada), and Antonio Soria (wife – Rosalia Portagal Rodriques).

I have not studied the Soria name and am unable to provide long branches of this name like I can of most surnames from Jalisco and Zacatecas. However I may be able to help you in your reflection of why your research has failed to make the connections that you are looking for. You stated that you are familiar with the origins of the Soria name but did not detail any of this familiarity. What other variations are there, if any? Is Siorda a variation of Soria? In the timeframe where many of our ancestors came to the new world from Spain many of them used different surnames then their fathers. Have you done extensive research on the Soria women? This is usually more difficult as we sometimes find the women using multiple surnames. Have you looked into the "archivos secretos".? Have you looked through court documents that refer to Sorias in Spain and Mexico? Often there are court documents that clarify the relationship between the emigrants from Spain as they fight over assets left behind. Some times there is no connection to be found as the emigrants purposely erase all signs of the past, including family, as they seek a new start in the new world.

When research does not produce the results you wish then it is time to try something different. But before you do that, be sure to backtrack and review all notes from past research as there may be a gold nugget that you didn't previously think was important, but when added to other information that you have compiled, will gain greater significance.

Hope this helps,
R A Ricci

Thank you very much for your response. I am aware of the variations of the name but so far have only been looking at Soria/de Soria only because that is what my found-documents indicate--thus far. I had not attempted much of a search in Spain as it seemed pointless without knowing the specific transition point from there to Mexico, but the perspectives you offered are quite interesting and worth looking into. I have attempted to look for the women as well but will attempt to pursue this more deeply now. I will also backtrack once more and glean documents for any possible hidden "nugget." Thank you for the new ideas.

To all on this forum, I realize as well that I was quite remiss--failing to introduce myself with a greeting. I do apologize:
Hi,
My name is Isidro C. Soria Jr., son of Isidro Chaves Soria, who is son of Juan Villalobos Soria and Manuela Portillo Chaves. I began researching my family branches about 10 years ago and this is one of only a few seemingly insurmountable walls that has truly frustrated me. I joined this site a few months ago but hesitated to call for help until after I had exhausted other avenues. I am sincerely grateful for any help received.
ICSoria

I've have recently trying to look for some Soria in Nochistlán, but I've haven't go anywhere, I've found out that one of my Ancestors's sister; María Quiralte, (I didn't know her existence) married some one with this last name and lived at the beginning of the 1700's in Nochistlán. Unfortunately the record (a Dispensa) that mention this doesn't have the name of this Soria person. Looking on the FamilySearch index, I haven't found any Soria in this time period in this place, there are a few on Pinos though, but I can't tell if they are the same families. Important to mention here is that this people (my ancestor's sister descendants) are called "De Osoria" and "De Osorio", but a generation later in the mentioned Dispensa they are called Soria. I also look a few records with the Siordia name, but found out no connections with the rest of the Soria/Osoria records. Now this family from María Quiralte are also closed to (based on the godparents names and her kids/grandkids marriages) with the Sandoval and the Rodriguez de Santa Ana. I presume that there may be a connection also between this an the Soria/Osoria, but at this point I can't really tell.

I know this isn't much of a help, but I just wanted to comment the couple of findings I did. My thinking is that Pinos would be a good place to look into.

Thank you for responding. You have helped confirm that I need to begin looking at other name variations. I did retreive records for my grandfather's Villalobos side going into Nochistlan to Matrimonio de Francisco De Villalobos Y Maria Carrillo in 1741. Was hoping it would offer more answers but it stopped there.

ICSoria

Dear Isidro Soria,

I think you may have some success if you extend your search. You mentioned: Barbara Soria (wife – Sostenes Luna), Juan Soria (wife – Justa Estrada), and Antonio Soria (wife – Rosalia Portagal Rodriques) They may have a connection to the Alvarez de Luna family and/ or the Rodriguez Portugal family. I believe that Rosalia may be Maria Rosalia Rodriguez de Portugal. Check out San Juan de Los Lagos and Jalostotitlan and Santa Maria De Los Lagos, Lagos De Moreno, Jalisco and Guanajuato

Rosalia Portugal Rodriguez?
Name: Juana Rosalia Munoz Rodriguez
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 29 Apr 1771
Christening Place: SAN JUAN DE LOS LAGOS,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name: Thomas Antonio Munoz De La Barba
Mother's Name: Maria Franca. Rodriguez Portugal
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60338-5 , System Origin: Mexico-ODM , GS Film number: 220646 ,

Antonio De Soria
mentioned in the record of Barthola Soria
Name: Antonio De Soria
Gender: Male
Wife: Juana Rosa
Daughter: Barthola Soria
Other information in the record of Barthola Soria
from Mexico, Baptisms
Name: Barthola Soria
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 15 Sep 1705
Christening Place: SANTA FE,GUANAJUATO,GUANAJUATO,MEXICO
Father's Name: Antonio De Soria
Mother's Name: Juana Rosa
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60798-4 , System Origin: Mexico-ODM , GS Film number: 668789 ,

Antto. De Soria
mentioned in the record of Joseph Adriano Soria
Name: Antto. De Soria
Gender: Male
Wife: Juana Rosa
Son: Joseph Adriano Soria
Other information in the record of Joseph Adriano Soria
from Mexico, Baptisms
Name: Joseph Adriano Soria
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 15 Sep 1709
Christening Place: NUESTRA SENORA DE GUANAJUATO,GUANAJUATO,GUANAJUATO,MEXICO
Father's Name: Antto. De Soria
Mother's Name: Juana Rosa
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60824-5 , System Origin: Mexico-ODM , GS Film number: 792434 ,

Antonio Silbestre Sora
mentioned in the record of Jose Visente Nicolas Sora
Name: Antonio Silbestre Sora
Gender: Male
Wife: Maria Rosalia
Son: Jose Visente Nicolas Sora
Other information in the record of Jose Visente Nicolas Sora
from Mexico, Baptisms
Name: Jose Visente Nicolas Sora
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 29 Sep 1788
Christening Place: San Miguel Arcángel, San Miguel de Allende, Guanajuato, Mexico
Birth Date: 24 Sep 1788
Father's Name: Antonio Silbestre Sora
Mother's Name: Maria Rosalia
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02870-7 , System Origin: Mexico-EASy , GS Film number: 794995 , Reference ID: yr 1782-1790 p 263 ,

Anttonio Soria
mentioned in the record of Juliana Soria
Name: Anttonio Soria
Gender: Male
Wife: Juana Maria
Daughter: Juliana Soria
Other information in the record of Juliana Soria
from Mexico, Baptisms
Name: Juliana Soria
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 04 Jan 1758
Christening Place: SANTA MARIA DE LOS LAGOS,LAGOS DE MORENO,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name: Anttonio Soria
Mother's Name: Juana Maria
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60413-1 , System Origin: Mexico-ODM , GS Film number: 221412 ,

Juan Antonio De Zoria
mentioned in the record of Juan Antonio De Zoria and Maria Rosa
Name: Juan Antonio De Zoria
Spouse's Name: Maria Rosa
Event Date: 14 Jul 1767
Event Place: San Francisco,Acambaro,Guanajuato,Mexico
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60679-8 , System Origin: Mexico-ODM , GS Film number: 712756

I also found some information that de Soria was not originally a surname but refers to an area in the Castilla/Leon region that had a large jewish population.

Good luck in your search!

R A Ricci

I have indeed looked at most of these indexed names without success as to direct connections via documents. I understand what you are suggesting and have indeed found a few connections at least by way of relatives, such as siblings. I have all related documents recorded on my Ancestry.com tree. I do not wish to sound dismissive of anyone's attempts to help. At your suggestion, I have begun going through documents more intently to look for ancillary information previously missed. For one, I am beginning to go back and search informacion de matrimonios for extra information. I had not delved into this as much previously because exact date searches are so tedious to look up in those documents. I am also looking through any other available indexes and documents I can find.
Again, I extend my thanks that you or anyone else who would even take the time to look into this and offer help.

Isidro

Dear Isidro

Don't give up. Here are a few dead ends that ended up not being dead ends.

Close to forty years of genealogy has brought many frustrations at times. I was stuck on some seemingly deadends that I thought would stay just that. My fathers ancestor Salvador Clemente de la Torre was a deadend for close to thirty years until I found a marriage dispensation that Claudia Casillas had posted on her Guadalajara dispensation index. I have found information in the information matrimonial that was not in the marriage record. A couple of times the marriage record ended in a deadend with the marriage record saying that the bride and groom had no blood relationship but I later found a dispensation stating that after they were married someone came forward and stated that they were indeed related and a dispensation was granted way after the marriage.

Another time I was searching for Duran in Zacatecas and the dates did not seem to match so I tossed many of my notes aside because the pieces of the puzzle did not fit. It turns out that the pieces were the correct pieces and most of the dates were correct but that my search for a certain marriage date threw everything off The situation was clarified when I found a document saying that the first five children were born before the parents were actually married. Because of the kids birthdates I had assumed that the parents couldn't have been the ones I was looking for since their marriage was so much later than five of the siblings.

Many many years ago I became stuck on my mother in laws lomelli line. I had thought that I had possibly found the parents to my mother in laws Lomeli ancestor. I was invited by Mike Gutierrez to meet with his genealogy group. Mike introduced me to Steven Hernandez and other dedicated genealogists. While they were positive and complimentary of my vast research, they pointed out that they disagreed with two of my possible conclusions. Though I knew that I had those lines in my tree only as a possibility it still hurt to hear that they could not be possible because of information that they had in their possession. It turned out that they were right on this Lomeli line and ii was deadend until a few years ago when I found a document listing a brother This document gave some information, clues to his father but no name. It wasn't until I tried to help you out with your Soria line that I came across a document that names the father of the brother. I took a break from looking up your information and found a document that I had been looking for many years. Since the previous document that I had found a decade ago stated that they were full brothers, the line has now been extended over a century to Carlo Lomelin. It turns out that I had unsuccessful searching through the brother because I had found too many marriages of someone with the brothers name and I had to put them aside since I could not tell which one was his brother. It turns out that the brother was married four times and the four marriages that name him are naming the same person. Their parents weren't married so it was only through the brothers records where he misrepresents his parents marital state by stating he is their legitimate son that I have been able to confirm the identity of the father.

This Lomeli line is very important because my previous success in researching the Lomeli lines had been through my ancestors. This new line is my mother In laws and since this is her maiden name it has added significance to her and her siblings I can now trace them to Carlo Lomellini.

The other line that the Orange County genealogists said wasn't possible because of their information I put aside for many years until I later took another look at it and found that the line that I had originally researched was possible and more probable than the line that they claimed. Remember to write down all your sources so you can go book and look at them later. Many times something that seems insignificant at the first reading becomes very significant on subsequent readings. One of the reasons that they had given for disagreeing with my proposed line was because I had mistranslated a word. Right away I agreed with them that I had mistranslated the word and tossed the line aside. It turns out that they were correct about the mistranslation but they were incorrect about its significance. It was a very significant term on subsequent readings and when combined with other information actually reinforces the possibility of the line that I was proposing. But it was only with the added information from another source that the term took on a new life. This line still hasn't been confirmed but it is supported by Jaime Holcombes work.

Good luck comes through hard work. Sometimes the good luck takes a long time. Sometimes it comes like an avalanche.
Good luck,
Rick A Ricci

Rick,
Thank you so much for your in-depth response. It gave me quite a bit to think about and I will file it away and review it off and on, I'm sure. You reminded me of one name in my Villalobos line that did not quite make sense at the time but I saved a copy in my folders anyway. A few years later, I re-approached the name via the subject's niece which I then happened to find, and it lead to a confirmation of the previous connection. I am now, as per your previous suggestion, attempting to look into all relatives mentioned in documents. I didn't do a very good job of adding citations when I began downloading documents but I have rectified that some of those searches, as well as going back and adding more information to names I have been reviewing. I will get better at this I am sure, I just hope it doesn't take me another ten years before finding these names that have been especially frustrating me. Thank you again,

Isidro

Hello, I have several Soria's in my family tree from the Moyahua/Juchipila/Amoxochitl area but have failed to go past 1800 with my gggf francisco soria and his wife teresa rodriguez (from el ranchito).

Dear Isidro,

When you mentioned the surname Soria I immediately thought of Siordia which is a Surname that I had come across in the research of my family tree. An ancestor of mine, Francisco Rodriguez Bajo as married twice. I descend from his second wife, thomasa Rosa de Ulloa y sepulveda. His first wife is where I first came across the name Siordia His first wife was known as Teresa Rodriguez Ponce, Teresa ponce siorda and Teresa Sordia.

Teresa ponce de siorda is the daughter of a Nicolas Rodriguez ponce aka Nicolas Ponce de Siordia.
Nicolas is the son of Frncisco Rodriguez Ponce el mozo ( Junior ) and Juana Avalos y Bocanegra.
Francisco el mozo is the son of Francisco Rodriguez Ponce (senior) and Juana Siordia.

Juana Siordia had many siblings and nephews and nieces who used the surname Siordia.

Besides some Siordias using the ponce and Rodriguez last name, some Siordia family members sometimes used Fernandez de Vaulus.
Juana Siordias parents are Maria de Gabay and Pedro Fernandez de Vaulus. The Sirordia comes from his side of the family.
Maria de Gabay is a daughter of Martin Gabay el de Navarro and Petronila Sotelo de Moctezuma ( great grandaughter to Moctezuma II).

Good luck in your research,
R A Ricci

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