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Antonio Madera 1573 Pasjero de Indias?

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By MADERA_32 - Posted on 25 March 2015

http://www.archivesportaleurope.net/web/guest

Refence No. is: INDIFERENTE,2057,N.91

I am interested to know where he went? Can anyone help in deciphering the document which is about 14 pages long.

Katy, just like Armando mentioned there is many records missing in the historical national/state archives in Mexico and in Spain, many were sent back and forward and finally kept on different territories, many were lost, destroyed, misplaced, you name it. There are many that still archived with out been truly indexed even less shown on the Internet, there is also those that where taken from the archives and sold them to private parties like collectors, in Mexico specially after the revolution many records "disappeared", and although many were destroyed, reality is that they are on someones collections. In my hometown, its native historian the renown J. Amaya Topete found the original documents of the first spanish description of the town (when the natives where still culturally alive) in the University of Austin Texas, go figure how it end up there, a least who ever had it, pass it to an institution, we don't have that much luck with other records.

Any way, the wikipedia entry for Jerez, Zac. in spanish states that its local Historian Luis Miguel Berumen Félix, keeps himself those records concerning the people you just mention, it looks like he has some publications about it, my guess is that the only way for you to put an eye on those records is by contacting him directly. It also mention that some records are in the Guadalajara archives.

In case you haven't, there are also some indexed records of the "Audiencia de Nueva Galicia" on the Public Library of Jalisco website. You may find something there too.

http://www.bpej.udg.mx/catalogo

Madera, the fact your oldest ancestor found shares the same name as the one in the records adds to the possibilities, no doubt, kids and grand kids usually have their folks names, take in account though, that the name Madera/Madero was not uncommon, and there are more records of people with this name coming to then Nueva España, those in the record went straight to Mexico city, you should check on the church records there.

And yes, that page states that Alonso did not have but a daughter who became a Nun and thus (I guessing) deprived of possessions. I does seems like they, Madera and his wife had kids, next time I give it a look to the rest of the record, this if not you or someone else have figured out already.

Thank you RJQ,

And I am very sad that the original records of your town ended up in the University of Austin, Texas which does not belong there.

My female partner has an older sister from ciudad zacatecas, Mexico who is a historian of Zacatecas with a degree and she wrote a book that is on publication, and I have a copy. She told me that she used to work in the library of archives in downtown Guadalupe, Zacatecas, Mexico, that is open to the public, that some people would go to the library and rip out pages from the original books and take them.

I thank you so much on you with all the information your giving me and your interpretation of the document I had asked for help on as my eyes are wide open and also relaying to my cousin who is eager to know. She is on my facebook and she currently lives in Guadalajara where she has worked for he Government. She is from our village and we share the same Great Great Grandfather Patricio Madera where she told me tales about him that she heard from her relatives. She had told me that her uncles had tales that Patricio Madera fue "firmante de adhesion al Federalismo en 1824."

I would definetly appreciate it if you can further decipher that document for me to see if Antonio Madera and Isabela Lopez that moved to Mexico City in 1573 had kids. Becuase since it is very hard to find records of Mezquitic, Jalisco, Mexico that go beyond my 7th generation great grandfather Antonio Madera (1660 - 1709).

You are correct that I should look at the records of Mexico City for the Antonio Madera and Isabela Lopez that moved there in 1573. I would probably search for defunto records in Mexico City which might give more information as to any kids they may have had. Which then I can follow those kids or grandkids to see if any of them had gone to Mezquitic, Jalisco, Mexico.

Also you mentioned Francisco I, Madero. That would be neat if I am related to him. From what I know about him, his family is from Chihuahua, Mexico and are wealthy business owners. I think he may be related to the winery of "Casa Madero" in Coahuila, Mexico. From their website it says that winery was formed when a group of Friars had departed from Zacatecas in the late 1500's heading up north where they arrived to Valle De Parras, Coahuila, Mexico where they established wineries. I wonder how they got the name "Madero"

I also want to check into your town where you mentioned about an original document by the spanish of their first description of your town.

ok i'll check into that. the reason why i'm looking, because i've seen a few trees mistakenly refer to hernan gonzalez as being a son of pedro carrillo davila and sancha vazquez de tapia when hernan is too old to be a possible son of theirs(feel free to ask how i came up with that conclusion). i would like figure out who are his parents actually, and to see if pedro carrillo davila and hernan gonzalez were perhaps related to each other in some other way.
it would be nice if i could also find if hernan's wife was either a full or half sister of miguel caldera, but i highly doubt i'll ever find the answer to that question.

also i would like see if hernan's daughter catalina was once married to rodrigo pinedo.

I also want to thank you very much Katy for helping me out. I remember you stating in the past about "archivos de indias"

I want to mention that when I recently had gone in person to the LDS center to look at microfilm on tierras/escrituras during the late 1600's and early 1700's. There is a person that that came over to chat with me about geneology and she knew so much about the "pasajero de indias" and was on the computer opening all these websites to show me ways to locate people that traveled to the Americas.

I wonder if she can help in finding what your looking for.

Madera, its really not that much, I enjoy reading all documents and in turn "helps" me for when I go back to my genealogy, is good to focus on something totally unrelated sometimes to go back "afresh", I am glad I can help a little, and like I said, its a retro-feeding process.

You are lucky that your last name is in fact in "Castellano", that is, not foreign to the language, thus it almost never changed nor it was misspelled often, but I would suggest to keep an eye on the "Madero" variation. I would think that they are in fact the same name.

Even with all the loses, we are lucky that Mexico and Spain have so many records still, many other countries are not that reach in archives, we think it as a bummer when we can't pass the 1600's, but in reality much more people from other places can't even go beyond a couple of generations.

Jesus Amaya Topete was from Ameca in Jalisco, which is my hometown, He published quite a bit of stuff about Mexico and Jalisco history, to my luck I've never been able to see his actual books, but citations from them in other works. He found those documents I mentioned that belongs to "Las relaciones" which were geographical, historical and political descriptions of towns ordered by the Spanish Monarchy done in many places including Spain.

Yes, I looked him up yesterday and saw that he is from Ameca. I believed Ameca is in Southern Jalisco, but then saw on map it is in the center. Is it closer to Colotlan or Guadalajara?

I was reading up on some history of Ameca and also I vaguely remember seeing old maps of Ameca that I saw in the PARS website.

Have you looked up Ameca in this website:

http://www.archivesportaleurope.net/web/guest

There are some information on Ameca there. Search for it then when the list comes up, filter on the left side by selecting, archivo de indias.

I see an old map of ameca 1709. And other documents prior to that.

Katy? I am looking at the PARS website and did a search on "testamentos" and filtered to "archivos de indias"

http://www.archivesportaleurope.net/web/guest

I ran across one "relacion de meritos y servicios de Fernando De Vera, Licenciado en canones doctor en Teologia, vicario y juez de testamentos de Jerez de la Frontera, juez eclesiastico de las escuelas de Salamanca" year 1641.

Here is the reference no. to look up: INDIFERENTE,112,N.6

Here are a couple of more people from Jerez De La Frontera mentioned in year 1604:

http://oi58.tinypic.com/b5s0mh.jpg

Reference no. CONTRATACION,272,N.1,R.1

Madera thank you for the link, yes, there are more than one Ameca, a least two with this exact name, one close to Huejuquilla on the north side, my town is the one close to Cocula in the 70 highway towards Mascota from Guadalajara. Really old town but my paternal line came from Nochistlán, my own "tale of two cities" :).

too bad the image link doesn't mention any names i'm familiar with

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