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Introduction and information on Ysabel Macias

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By dcalonso - Posted on 07 February 2015

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum

I'm Danny and I've been researching my family for about a month. It started
as a school project but then I became really interested after it was over.
My Spanish teacher that's LDS was helping me read the records. I'm not sure
of the actual ranches that my familes ancestors are from, but they're
mostly on records from the Encarnacion de Diaz section of Family Search.
Ive traced my family to Ysabel Masias and Juan Antonio De Robalcaba married
in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico on May 27th 1764 but
the record wasn't readable, even by my teacher. Thank you for letting me be
in the forum and if the forum knows who Ysabel Masias's ancestors are
please tell me.

--
Danny C. Alonso

Hello Danny,

It says -

"En la villa de Aguascalientes en veinte y siete
de Mayo de mi setecientos sesenta y cuatro
años habiendo precedido las diligencias
acostumbradas prevenidas por derecho
leído se las amonestaciones dispuestas por
el Santo Concilio de Trento en la Iglesia
Parroquial en tres días festivos inter
missarum solemnia que lo fueron el seis
trece y el quince del corriente mes y no
habiendo resultado de ellas impedimento
alguno como teniente de Br
Matías Joseph asistió al matrimonio
que en mi presencia por palabras
de presentes celebraron Juan Antonio de
Robalcaba español originario y vecino de
esta villa en La Estansuela hijo legítimo de
Miguel de Robalcaba difunto y de María
de Villalobos con Isabel Macías española
originaria y vecina de esta villa en La
Villita hija legitima de Joseph Manuel
Macías difunto y de María Josefa de Aguilar"

The rest is very hard to read.

I haven't found a marriage record for Miguel González de Rubalcava and María Villalobos y Escoto Tovar but the first baptism I can find for a child is for Juan Joseph González de Rubalcava y Villalobos 28 Aug 1713 so they should have married at least 10-12 months prior to that date. I don't think there is an información matrimonial for them but it would be good to double check.

María Villalobos y Escoto Tovar was baptized 28 Feb 1694 and was the daughter of Isidro de Villalobos Macías Valadez and Francisca Gertrudis Escoto y Tovar married befpre 1683 based on the following Dispensa 168024 -

Phelipe de Chavez, 30a hl de Pedro de Chavez+ y Catarina Jimenez con Teresa de Villalobos, 30a hl de Isidro de Villalobos+ y Gertrudis de Rublacava

Árbol
Antonia de Villalobos.......1...Isidro de Villalobos
Pedro de Chavez..............2...Isidro de Villalobos
Pto...................................3...Pta
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18415-73711-18

Isidro de Villalobos Macías Valadez was the son of Isidro de Villalobos Macías Valadez and María Vásquez de Retamosa married 22 May 1640 in Teocaltiche based on the following

Dispensa de 4o grado
Tronco Francisco de Villalobos cc María Macias
Diego Villalobos..................1...Mariana Villalobos
cc Ana Jimenez.........................cc Esteban de Chavez
Francisco Villalobos............2...Vicente de Chavez
cc Xaviera Velasco....................cc Isabel de Ulloa
Pioquinto de Villalobos........3...Rosalia de Chavez
cc Margarita Macias..................cc Joseph Manuel Lopez
Teresa de Villalobos, pta.....4...Miguel Ignacio Lopez, pto

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18401-10098-46

[Tronco Cristóbal de Villalobos..cc..María Pérez de Nava]
[Tomás de Villalobos .........1...Francisco de Villalobos]
Pedro de Villalobos.............2...Diego de Villalobos
Ignacio de Villalobos, pto....3...Catarina de Villalobos, pta

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18415-38179-52

[Tronco Cristóbal de Villalobos..cc..María Pérez de Nava]
Tomás de Villalobos .........1...Francisco de Villalobos
Nicolás de Villalobos........2...Antonia de Villalobos
Nicolás de Villalobos........3...Manuel de Chávez
Miguel de Villalobos........4.....Margarita de Chávez

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18415-73311-6

Francisco de Villalobos was baptized 31 July 1595 in Mexico City. He was the son of Cristóbal de Villalobos and María Pérez de Nava married 19 Oct 1594 in Mexico City.

Al margen
velados xpoval de villa
lovos i ma peres
En diez y nueve de Octubre de mill y quinientos y nobenta
y quatro años yo El bachiller Joan ugarte aviendose echo
las amonestaciones y de mas diligencias y con
madamiento del provisor y no ? de ni
gun ynpedimento despose y di la ben[roto]
nunpciales en esta iglesia a Xpoval [roto]
vz de esta ciudad y natural en la villa de [roto]
en los reynos de castilla hijo de mateo [roto]
vos y de bernardina Lan clares con [roto]
natural desta ciudad hija de Xpoval [roto]
madalena siendo testigos diego muñoz [roto]
? y franco blanco y andres [roto]

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-11174-910-34

María Vásquez de Retamosa was baptized 27 Jan 1620 in Aguascalientes. She was the daughter of Gaspar Macías Valadez and Mariana de Torres married 26 Mar 1612 in Aguascalientes.

En 6 de Março de 612 despose a Gaspar Macías y a Mariana de Torres en la estancia de Nicolás Ramirez de Las Peñuelas, siendo testigos Alonso Macias, y los melliços, y Nicolas Ramirez y lo firmé -- Gabriel Ordoñez

(22) Don Gaspar Macias-Valadez y Retamosa el 6 de marzo de 1612 se caso en la Estancia de Peñuelas con Doña Mariana de Torres y su hermano Felipe Macías-Valadez y Retamosa el 1 de julio de 1618 contrajo matrimonio con María de Torres. Las dos eran hijas de Don Nicolás Ramírez y de Polonia de Torres (González Leal Mariano, Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia, Esquema genealógico numero 4, "Hijos de Nicolás Ramírez y de Polonia de Torres, y familias que de ellos provienen", Tomo II, 1982; Capitulo Macías-Valadez, indito).

Don Gaspar Macías-Valadez y de Retamosa, logró consolidar varios sitios de tierra en la Cañada de los Charcos, que baja del Cerro de los Gallos, con las que formó la llamada "Hacienda de los Charcos". Su hermano Alonso Macías-Valadez y Retamosa, fungió como Alcalde de la Villa de Nuestra Señora de la Asunción de las Aguas calientes y adquirió tierras en la Estancia de "San Nicolás de la Estanzuela", en un arroyo pedregoso que baja al pie del Cerro de los Gallos.

22. La Estancia de las Peñuelas, que primero fue propiedad de Don Nicolás Ramírez, luego le fue mercedada el 28 de junio de 1634 a Pedro Alonso de los Hinojos y años más tarde el 28 de junio de 1694 a Don Nicolás Fernández de Palos. AHJ. Tierras y Aguas, Instrumentos de la Hacienda de Peñuelas. http://historiasyrecuerdosdeencarnaciondediaz.com/macias.html

María Pérez de Nava was the daughter of Cristóbal Pérez López and María Magdaleno Hernández married 19 Dec 1577

"En diez y nueve de diziembre de mill quinos y setenta y siete años El
bachiller Diego de Fuentes clerigo presbitero con my licencia desposo a
..Christoval Perez hijo de Hernan de Perez y de Maria Lopez su mujer
que es de Granatula [de Calatrava] jurisdiccion de Almagro Castia [Castilla] y Maria Magdalena
hija de Goncalo Magdalena y de Maria Hernández su mujer que es de esta
ciudad habiendo se...................en esta iglesia de la beracruz las
diligencias conforme a derecho ¿? Christoval Perez dio información
como era libre de matrimonyo como consta por el mandamiento.......Diego de Fuentes .
hallado presentes Diego de Baeça del ¿? Pedro ? ...Juan Go.
Hermosilla vecinos de Mexico"

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-11174-1223-17

Gonzalo Magdaleno and Maria Hernández were also the parents of Ana Rodríguez de Magdaleno who married Juan González de Hermosillo y Sánchez Parra born in Guadalcanal, the son of Gonzalo García de Hermosillo and Leonor Sánchez Parra who per the confirmación de oficio of 1607 of Francisco Hermosillo MEXICO,177,N.58 found at http://pares.mcu.es/ and brother of the first bishop of Durango (Nueva Vizcaya) Fray Gonzalo Hermosillo.

Juan González de Hermosillo y Sánchez Parra is also a witness for the marriage of Cristóbal Pérez López and María Magdaleno Hernández.

Juan González de Hermosillo y Sánchez Parra had their first child Leonor baptized 15 June 1559 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-9758-14029-44 so they should have been married at least 9 months prior and should have been born about at least 19 years prior to 15 June 1559 and is mentioned as being deceased 20 April 1606 but living 27 Jan 1597 so he died between those dates.

Per image 6 of the confirmación de oficio

"Gonzalo Rodríguez Magdaleno y María Hernández su mujer difuntos vecinos
fueron de esta ciudad naturales de la dicha villa de Guadalcanal
ii Ítem si saben los dichos Gonzalo Rodríguez Magdaleno y María Hernández su mujer fueron casados
y velados según orden de la santa madre iglesia y durante su
matrimonio hubieron por su hija legítima a la dicha Ana Rodríguez Magdaleno nacio
en esta ciudad de México y por tal su hija legitima"

This is a different family from that of the Juan González de Hermosillo of Los Altos de Jalisco.

My husband's ancestors were related by marriage to the Macias, and his ancestors also included some Rubalcabas. They were all from Encarnacion de Diaz. Have you put your family tree in Nuestros Ranchos? See my trees under Emilie Garcia. My husband is Antonio Garcia

Congratulations on getting hooked on genealogy. It will be a lifelong hobby, and you will always love it.

Many of us wish we had started at your age, and wish we had interviewed all our eldest living relatives for more information before they took it to the grave. Get photos, stories, any documents they have.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2015 06:49:42 -0800
> From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction and information on Ysabel Macias
>
> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum
>
> I'm Danny and I've been researching my family for about a month. It started
> as a school project but then I became really interested after it was over.
> My Spanish teacher that's LDS was helping me read the records. I'm not sure
> of the actual ranches that my familes ancestors are from, but they're
> mostly on records from the Encarnacion de Diaz section of Family Search.
> Ive traced my family to Ysabel Masias and Juan Antonio De Robalcaba married
> in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico on May 27th 1764 but
> the record wasn't readable, even by my teacher. Thank you for letting me be
> in the forum and if the forum knows who Ysabel Masias's ancestors are
> please tell me.
>
> --
> Danny C. Alonso

Thank you sir for the additional ancestors. Is this the wedding of Ysabel
Macias's parents

Name:Joseph Manuel Macias
Spouse's
Name:Maria Josepha De Aguilar
Event Date:01 Oct 1762Event
Place:El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60485-1

, System Origin: Mexico-ODM , GS Film number: 299828

My folder url http://www.nuestrosranchos.com/en/dcalonso

Danny C. Alonso

Yes. Sorry I had missed the last line where you specified you were asking about her parents.

The image is at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11082-70054-49

Hi Armando,
I need to know what you think about this theory. Juan Antonio de Rubalcava and Isabel Macias are my 7th Great Grandparents, through Guillermo de Rubalcava that married Andrea de Alba. And, admittedly they are one of my least researched ancestors because I haven't gotten to them yet, but I tentatively have the parents of Isabel Macias as Joseph Manuel Macias and Josepha de Aguirre/Magdaleno. The couple he put down Manuel Macias and Josepha de Aguilar married only two years before her supposed daughter. Plus, if you look at the IM for Juan Antonio de Rubalcava and Isabel Macias https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12379-10155-97?cc=1502404&wc=M99K-37G:1018381828 It lists Isabel Macias' mother not as Aguilar, but as Josepha de Aguirre, which I believe she uses from her grandmother Mariana de Aguirre that married Diego Magdaleno.
Also, if you look at the the padrinos that baptized the children of Juan Antonio de Rubalcava and Isabel Macias, they are either Magdalenos or connected to the Magdalenos.
The Padrinos of my 6th Great Grandfather Guillermo de Rubalcava are George de Trillo and Guadalupe Macias, daughter of Josepha de Magdaleno and I believe sister to Isabel Macias: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11122-68406-55?cc=1502404&wc=M6Q6-NNG:64894201,64894202,64900101
The Padrino of Joseph Raphael Magdaleno Rubalcava is Juan Clemente de Villalobos, the husband of Ignacia Macias, daughter of Josepha de Magdaleno and I believe sister to Isabel Macias: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12454-66503-25?cc=1502404&wc=M6Q6-5M9:64894501,64894502,65089601
The Padrinos of Petra Rubalcava are Pioquinto de Villalobos and Margarita Macias, daughter of Josepha de Magdaleno and I believe sister to Isabel Macias: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11122-68429-48?cc=1502404&wc=M6Q6-NNG:64894201,64894202,64900101 
This is the marriage of Joseph Manuel Macias and Josepha Magdaleno, they married 9 Nov 1733 in San Juan de los Lagos: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18565-20333-32?cc=1874591&wc=12510746
I think the timeline fits better, but, I'm not by any means certain. Let me know what you think.
Christopher de Cuellar

Thank you for the information on my ancestors Armando. I didn't just want
information on Ysabel Maciases parents, I just didn't think I was allowed
to ask about more than one person. but I also needed information on Juan
Antonio De Robalcaba. Thank you. I didn't have any of the people you gave
me. Ysabel Macias and Juan Antonio De Robalcaba are the ancestors i have in
the 18th century. My other ancestors I havent traced outside of the 19th
century and 20th century.

Danny C. Alonso

Christopher,

The IM proves that I made a mistake in assuming the surname was Aguilar and not possibly another surname. Once I took a better look at the marriage record it actually only has Agui. I had started personal index of the Sam Juan de Los Lagos marriage records because they aren't indexed at FamilySearch but I had stopped before reaching that page. Even so I probably would never had made the connection with the Aguirre family. I do agree that the marriage record of Joseph Manuel Macias and Josepha de Magdaleno of 1733 are the parents of the wife Isabel (Ysabel) Macías especially since the marriage record explicitly states that Joseph Manuel Macias was from Aguascalientes.
The IM also states that Juan Antonio de Robalcaba is 17 years old meaning he was born in 1747. Men didn't normally marry that young and it would be impossible for him to be the son of the family I associated him with since that family started having children in 1713. That would mean the mother, María Villalobos y Escoto Tovar baptized 1694, had children from 1713 until 1747, until the mother was 53 or 54. I have never heard of a woman having children past 46 years old. I really think that the age was a mistake although there could have been another couple Miguel de Robalcaba and María de Villalobos. That's something that needs to be investigated more.

Armando

Danny,

I don't know of any rule against asking about paternal and maternal ancestors of a couple. However, tt is best to concentrate on one family at a time.

Armando

Thanks to Christopher, now that we have the correct marriage record of the parents of Isabel Macias. The parents of Joseph Manuel Macias are mentioned as Juan Macías and Juan(a) Ernandez which are Juan Macías Valadez y Durán y Vega and Juana Gómez de Espejo married 12 June 1683 in Aguascalientes. Top left at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30252-70

The parent of Juan Macías Valadez were Joseph Macías Valadez and Catalina Vega per that marriage record. The parent of Joseph Macías Valadez were Alonso Macías Valadez and Maria Alvarez per the dispensa at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18413-52932-1

Alonso is proven to be a brother of Mateo per the dispensa at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18424-13454-3 and Mateo is proven to be a brother of Leonor per the dispensa at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18403-64617-2

His burial record of 27 Jan 1645 is at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30252-70 which states he died at his ranch La Labor de San Nicolás. He didn't have a will due to being poor.

The parents of Juana Gómez de Espejo were Juan Hernández and Ana Dominguez. The parents of Juan Hernández are supposedly Domingo Hernández Gamiño and Juana Gómez de Espejo but I can't find the proof of that.

The parents of Ana Dominguez were Pedro Alonso de los Hinojos and Ana Magdalena Domínguez per the following dispensas at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18378-21973-15 and https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18413-8431-26

Pedro Alonso de los Hinojos and Ana Magdalena Domínguez were married 3 May 1620 in Pinos, Zacatecas per GONZÁLEZ-LEAL, MARIANO. (2011). Retoños de España en La Nueva Galicia. Guadalajara: Gobierno de Jalisco and an LDS sheet by Mary Lou Montagna.

See also http://historiasyrecuerdosdeencarnaciondediaz.com/macias.html#num9 and http://www.nuestrosranchos.com/en/node/17433

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