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Francisco Michel Ordones

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By coronaarechiga - Posted on 16 November 2014

I have found a major flaw in my tree. It seems I have fallen victim to the syndrome of "too many people with the same name." I somehow had combined Francisco Michel-Ordones (1), married to Michaela Lopez-Bueso, with Francisco Michel-Ordones (2), married to Manuela Lopez-Bueso and then to Lorenza Gertrudes Gonzales. My husband is a direct descendant of both of these men.

Francisco (1), was married to Michaela up to the time of his death in 1709:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-8269-65?cc=1874591&wc=12508902

I have 7 children listed for this couple: Maria (Directly descended), Dominga, Domingo, Juana, Ascencio, Ignacio, Regina. I haven't located a marriage for this couple nor can I verify their parents...although there are several possibilities. A strong possibility is that he is the brother of Thomas Michel-Ordones, father of Francisco (2).

Francisco (2), was born to Thomas Michel-Ordones and Augustina Escobar in 1694 in Autlan:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18561-19394-40?cc=1874591&wc=12504693

was married to Manuela Lopez-Bueso until her death in 1742 in Sayula:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18571-57336-26?cc=1874591&wc=12509784

I have 5 children listed for this couple: Maria de la Concepcion, Juan Matias, Thomas, Julio Feliciano, and Justa Maria.

Francisco (2) married in 1744 in Sayula:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18578-4484-49?cc=1874591&wc=M99L-N21:1567847509

This couple had at least 6 children: Maria Magdalena (directly descended), Bernardino Jose, Juan Marcelo, Agustin Maria, Josef Francisco, and Thomas.

I've spent hours sorting out these two people and their families, but now I can't seem to be left with a swirl of information. I would greatly appreciate if someone could provide a life-preserver...or at least a stick.

Thank you,
Deedra Corona

Hi everyone,

I have Francisco Garcia de Alba y Ruiz marrying Casilda Ortega y Maldonado. Francisco's parents are Francisco Garcia de Alba and Isabel Ruiz Galindo. I am looking for my backup but unfortunately I think this may have been updated on my tree when I confirmed a match with someone else's tree.

Does anyone have information to clear this up?

Thanks,

Erika Rivera

Dear Erika,
Your question has been hotly debated before, but there has not been (as far as I know) a clear answer on the parents of Francisco García de Alba, married to Casilda de Ortega y Maldonado. The closest evidence I’ve seen comes from a Dispensa written in 1699. It mentions an Isabel Ruiz (or possibly Ruiz de Betancor) (1). The Dispensa is for Isabel’s grandson, Antonio García de Alba (6) and Faustina de Betancur y Alarcón Tresalba (12). This dispensa was requested because Antonio (the groom) was the grandson of Isabel Ruiz, while Faustina (the bride) was the granddaughter of Isabel’s brother Nicolas de Betancor (2).

It gives the parents of Antonio (6) as Diego García de Alba (4) and María Gomez de Aguirre(5), while the parents of Faustina (12) were Francisco de Betancur y Alarcón (10) and Juana Sánchez (11). An important note, though, is that I have NOT seen Isabel’s last name anywhere in a primary document as “Ruiz Galindo.” If there is one I would be happy to see it.

Here is the link to the Dispensa from 1699:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18427-14347-18?cc=1874591&wc=SS2Q-92S:171935001,171974101,175712003

Antonio and Faustina were finally married 8 Oct 1699 in Autlán. Here is the marriage document:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18522-1198-15?cc=1874591&wc=12505159

Put more simply:

Generation Ia) Isabel Ruiz de Betancor (1) and Nicolás de Betancor (2) were siblings (I do not know their parents’ names). Isabel Ruiz de Betancor (1) married (?) García de Alba (3). They had:

Generation IIa) Diego García de Alba (4), married María Gomez de Aguirre (5). They had :

Generation IIIa) Antonio García de Alba (6), baptized 25 Aug 1675 in Tecolotlán. Padrinos: Juan de Vetancur (7) (sic.) and María de Mora (8) (who had at least three children). The baptism link is listed below:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-60927-38?cc=1874591&wc=SS5Q-92S:173069801,173069802,173069803

Generation Ib) Nicolás de Betancor (2), married Isabel Gomez (9). Nicolás (2) died 6 Aug 1676 in Tecolotlán, although his death record says he was from Tuxcacuesco. Isabel Gomez (9) died 2 Sep 1683 in Tecolotlán, and both death records are below:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-6128-37?cc=1874591&wc=M99L-JHD:n1987215731

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-7161-34?cc=1874591&wc=M99L-JHD:n1987215731

Generation IIb) Francisco de Betancur y Alarcón (10), married Juana Sanchez (11). They had:

Generation IIIb) Faustina de Betancur y Alarcón Tresalba (12)

Theory 1: It is possible that Diego’s father was a Francisco García de Alba.

Fact: as of yet I have NOT seen a primary document that says so.
Fact: Isabel Ruiz de Betancor WAS married to a García de Alba. We know that because Antonio was born 1675.
Fact: the earliest Francisco García de Alba (discussed before on this forum) lived in the 1560s. The following is found in Jesús Amaya Topete’s “Ameca: Protofundación Mexicana, p. 67.”
"Siendo vecino de la villa de San Miguel (Ayutla?), obtuvo el 17 de mayo de 1563, merced del virrey Velasco por un sitio de ganado menor en términos de la dicha villa, una suerte de huerta y solar para casa, dentro de la misma y dos caballerías de tierra 'en la parte y lugar donde hubiere'. Sin duda este Don Francisco es el antepasado de todos los García de Alba."

Theory 1 continued: Assuming 20 years per generation his father, Diego, would have been born at the latest by around 1655. Then Diego’s father would have been born at the latest by around 1635. Of course generations can be significantly longer than 20 years. If generations are 30 years, then the date for Diego’s father would be around 1615. If generations are 40 years apart, then the date for Diego’s father would be 1585.

Conclusion: We need more documents. I think most likely there had to be at least one more generation between Diego and the original Francisco García de Alba to connect us back. Regardless of the length of generations, if and when we find this link it will be a huge find.

Finally, here is a list Antonio and Faustina’s children:
- Nicolás García de Alba Betancor, baptized in Autlán 1 Nov 1703. Here is the baptism record:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18561-19811-52?cc=1874591&wc=M99L-ZZV:n1610887082

- Juan Antonio García de Alba Betancor died in 1728 at age 14. The record also importantly gives us an approximate death date for Faustina, who had died before 1728. Here is the death record:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18562-8413-57?cc=1874591&wc=M99L-8WV:n639943481

- FranciscA García de Alba Betancor married to Pedro de Herrera 25 Jun 1729 in Ejutla. The reocrd says the mother of the bride is “Agustina de Vetancor, ia difunta.” But given that Faustina signed herself “Augustina” on her dispensa I think Faustina and Agustina are probably the same person. Here is the marriage record:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-4327-42?cc=1874591&wc=M99L-DM3:1843878067

- Joseph García de Alba Betancor, married in Autlán 7 Oct 1737 to Juana Gertrudis López Gutierrez. Importantly, this marriage gives us an approximate death date for Faustina, the mother of the groom, who had died before 1737. Here is the marriage record:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18522-632-21?cc=1874591&wc=M99L-ZFC:n1469645304

On a slightly separate family, on the right side of the image that has Antonio and Faustina’s marriage there is a marriage for Joseph Lopez de Andrade to Ana Gomes de Aguirre. I will post my thoughts on this as a separate topic, but suffice it here to note Ana’s last name as Gomez de Aguirre.

Unanswered Questions (we must prove this with primary documents):

A) Who was the husband (3) of Isabel Ruiz de Betancor (1) ?
B) Were Isabel Gomez (9) and María Gomez de Aguirre (5) and Ana Gomez de Aguirre related?
C) Who was Juan de Betancor (7)? How is he related?
D) Where do Faustina’s other last names come from?

Alright that does it for now!

Sergio

Thank you, Sergio! I'm going to dig into these records this weekend. It would be great to solve this mystery.

Hi Sergio,

Great job uncovering so much information on the Garcia the Alba and Betancur! I think I can add to your info and hopefully get a clearer picture on the subject.
That dispensa for Antonio Garcia de Alba and Faustina/Agustina Betancur provides a lot of clues. First, it's evident that Faustina uses the names Faustina and Augustina interchangeably in various records. In fact, the dispensa introduces her as "Fagustina" de Betancur y Alarcon. Second, the word "tresalba" after her name is not part of her name, but a casta designation. Literally tresalba translates to "a horse having 3 white feet". In the casta system a tresalbo is produced from an indio and a mestizo. So a tresalbo is 3 parts Indian and 1 part Spanish. (You can find all sorts of casta tables on the internet, here is a link to one http://diadelaetnia.homestead.com/mestizaje.html )
You'll note that the records for her children are either noted as "espanol" or "mestizo".

We know from the dispensa that Faustina was born about 1683 because it notes her age as 16. I do have a record of her death. She died a "sudden" death on June 9th, 1725 in Tuxcacuesco. Here is the link:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18735-67308-9?cc=1874591&wc=SS58-168:173457201,171935202,173771001

In addition to the children you listed for Faustina and Antonio, I also have:
Juana Maria Garcia b. May 1701 in Tuxcacuesco
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-26982-37?cc=1874591&wc=SSPQ-W38:173457201,171935202,173457203
She married Guillermo de Contreras Feb 2, 1721 in Tuxcacuesco
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18735-65399-52?cc=1874591&wc=SS58-16D:173457201,171935202,174360401

Juana Gertrudis b. April 1722 in Tuxcacuesco.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-27488-48?cc=1874591&wc=SSPQ-W38:173457201,171935202,173457203

Maria Garcia married to Pedro Aguilar Jan 7, 1740 in Ejutla.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-4257-15?cc=1874591&wc=SSLB-L29:171936101,171934002,173052001
Note: It's likely they had more children because there are big gaps in time between the children, especially in the latter years of Faustina.

Now on to Antonio Garcia de Alba. He was a puzzle to me because his dispensa notes he was the son of Diego Garcia de Alba and Maria Gomez de Aguirre. However his daughter, Maria Garcia married to Pedro Aguilar from above, produced descendants who had dispensas that showed her father, Antonio Garcia de Alba, was the son of Francisco Garcia de Alba (married to Casilda Ortega Maldonado). Here are the links to the trees of the 2 dispensas in question:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18411-65819-20?cc=1874591&wc=SSKY-DP8:171935001,171974101,176337501 (Note: the tree actually shows Fernando Garcia at the top, but it should be Francisco Garcia de Alba).

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18414-104945-51?cc=1874591

Somewhere there seemed to be a mistake. Sergio, I did not have the baptism record for Antonio Garcia de Alba, but now that I do, thanks to you, I'm pretty sure the mistake is with the 2 dispensas from above. We know for a fact, that Antonio Garcia was the son of Diego Garcia de Alba. Because the 2 dispensas confuse Francisco Garcia de Alba with Diego Garcia the Alba, I strongly suspect that Francisco Garcia de Alba and Diego Garcia de Alba were brothers. And very possibly had a father named Francisco Garcia de Alba...

By the way, Antonio Garcia remarried after Faustina's death. He remarried Juana Lopez Saavedra on Feb 26, 1729 in Ejutla. Interestingly, both Antonio and Juana Lopez are noted as mestizos in the record.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-4254-42?cc=1874591&wc=SSLB-L29:171936101,171934002,173052001

Juan J

Hello All,

Back to the 1699 dispensa for Antonio Garcia de Alba and Faustina Betancur y Alarcon. To review some of Sergio's info:
1. Ysabel Ruiz de Betancur and Nicolas de Betancur were siblings.
2. Nicolas de Betancur was married to Ysabel Gomez. They had:
a. Francisco de Betancur Y Alarcon, married to Juana Sanchez and father of Faustina.
b. Ysabel Gomez de Betancur who married Joseph Brambila de Arriaga in Tecolotlan, 1688.
3. Ysabel Ruiz de Betancur married a Garcia de Alba (possibly Francisco). They had:
a. Diego Garcia de Alba, married to Maria Gomez de Aguirre, parents of Antonio Garcia.
b. Possibly Francisco Garcia de Alba, married to Casilda Ortega Maldonado.

Add to this another dispensa for Salvador Cobarrubias and Efigenia Garcia de Alba in 1752. In this dispensa Ysabel de Betancur was the sister of Juana de Betancur. Their mother was Ysabel Francisca Ruiz. Ysabel de Betancur was the mother of Francisco Garcia de Alba (married to Casilda Ortega Maldonado). We now have the mother of Ysabel Ruiz de Betancur and Francisco Carcia de Alba. And not only is this proof that Ysabel Ruiz de Betancur was the mother of Francisco Garcia de Alba, but combined with the dispensa for Faustina, we can conclude that Francisco Garcia de Alba and Diego Garcia de Alba were in fact brothers.

Just as important is the other branch of this tree, Juana Betancur. In the dispensa, Juana Betancur had a daughter, Nicolasa de Betancur who had Salvador de Cobarrubias. From previous posts, we learned that Juana Betancur Ruiz was married to Francisco Michel Ordones. From this dispensa we now know that they did indeed have a daughter, Nicolasa de Betancur who married Francisco de Cobarrubias.
Here is the link to the dispensa:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18411-37137-82?cc=1874591&wc=SSKY-92S:171935001,171974101,176025301

Someone in an earlier post on this discussion had mentioned the sisters Juana and Ysabel Betancur Ruiz as the daughters of Ysabel Francisca Ruiz and Hernando de Alaracon Betancur. I do not have any info this Hernando, but the name makes sense since in the 1699 dispensa, Faustina and her father, Francisco are both referred to as Betancur y Alarcon. Also I vaguely remember reading here or elsewhere that Francisco Garcia de Alba who married Casilda Ortega Maldonado was the third generation of men named Francisco Garcia de Alba. If that's the case, then Ysabel Ruiz de Betancur was likely married to a Francisco Garcia de Alba. Maybe someone can corroborate some of this information?

From the 2 dispensas, we can conclude that Ysabel Francisca Ruiz (possibly married to Hernando de Alarcon Betancur) had the following children:

1. Juana Betancur Ruiz who was married to Francisco Michel Ordones.
2. Nicolas de Betancur who was married to Ysabel Gomez.
3. Ysabel Ruiz de Betancur (or Betancur Ruiz) who was possibly married to Francisco Garcia
de Alba.

Sergio, I bet when can probably add Juan Betancur, married to Maria Mora to that list. However I do not have any documentation to support this. I can offer a clue in the baptism record of one their children, Diego Betancur. He was baptized Aug 3, 1677 in Tecolotlan. The godparents are listed as Nicolas (name is torn) Betancur and Ysabel Gomez Duran. So it is likely that Nicolas de Betancur and Juan Betancur were brothers (or other relation). Here is the link to the baptism:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-60934-43?cc=1874591&wc=SS5Q-92S:173069801,173069802,173069803

One last thing, there is a third dispensa that has a tree with Ysabel Francisca Ruiz. However there is a mistake on the right side of the tree. You can probably figure it out. It doesn't provide new information, but I include it anyway as further documentation. The link is to the tree.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18413-88450-35?cc=1874591&wc=SSKB-DP8:171935001,171974101,176074401

Juan J

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