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Unusual Entry

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By alicebb - Posted on 24 September 2014

Hello Group,
This entry doesn't follow the usual formula I've read in baptismal entries, so I need your kind assistance in interpreting.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20879-26815-26?cc=1881200&wc=MDGP-GNL:176745901,176745902,178051601

Thanks so much for all your help.
Alice Blake

Hello Alice,

Calzón comes from Latin.
http://castellanoactual.com/una-familia-peculiar-calza-calzar-calzado-calceta-calcetin-media-calzon-calzoncillo-y-calzoneta/

Pantalón comes from Italian pantaloni through French pantalon.
http://www.elcastellano.org/palabra.php?id=1086

Saludos,
Armando

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 9:06 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> It's not surprising that so many Spanish words have Arabic origins. I
> once read that most Spanish words that begin with "al" are of Arabic origin.
> Even ojala comes from the Arabic for "God willing". I taught an English
> as a second language class of 50% Arabs and 50% Hispanics.
> The Hispanic students were sharing a joke amongst themselves that
> mentioned "calzones". The Arabs snickered and said that
> calzones and pantalones have the same meaning in Arabic.
>
> About the Italian, I noticed that, too. However, I never knew my
> Vocanegra surname to be Italian. I've also been told that my Bravo surname
> is originally Sicilian.
> At this point in time I can only say that as far as I have found (only to
> the 1700's) they both came from Spain. But, as we all know, genealogy is
> full of surprises!
> Alice
> --------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 9/26/14, PacoHernandez73@msn.com wrote:
>
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alguacil mayor
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> Date: Friday, September 26, 2014, 6:15 PM
>
> Alguacil is the modern
> translation of the word "Sheriff". Such as the
> word sheriff means "shire reeve" in ancient
> Anglo-Saxon. Al-guacil is originally Arabic and means the
> "local law authority".
>
> As "Alguacil Mayor del Santo Oficio [de la
> Inquisicion]" he would have been in charge of arresting
> people accused of heresy, witchcraft, jewish-converso
> practices, blasphemy, native Indian pagan worship, and
> subsequently bringing them before the "Regidores"
> the council members/judges who would interrogate you and
> ascertain your guilt or innocence.
>
> [By the way....isn't Queretaro a treasure
> trove of Italian immigrants?? Just on this page you see
> two Italian family names...Spinola (Espinola/Espindola) and
> Bocanegra...plus others like Grimaldi (Grimaldo), Lomellini
> (Lomelin/Lomeli) and Fregoso are not uncommon in Queretaro
> and Puebla genealogy.]
>
> Steven Francisco Hernández López

Calzones and pantalones might be Latin in origin, but they're used in Arabic. So they got those words from the Spanish.

There are indeed many Spanish words from Arabic, including our names: Guadalupe, Omar, Fatima, Lilia and Medina are just a few that come to mind.

Arabic language influence on the Spanish language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language_influence_on_the_Spanish_language

Laura Gonzalez

Hello Laura,

The point was that the word flow was not Arabic to Spanish since the
subject was about Arabic words in Spanish.

I was already aware of the Spanish words from Arabic since I was a teenager
and I wasn't inferring otherwise.

Armando

On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 12:47 AM, wrote:

> Calzones and pantalones might be Latin in origin, but they're used in
> Arabic. So they got those words from the Spanish.
>
> There are indeed many Spanish words from Arabic, including our names:
> Guadalupe, Omar, Fatima, Lilia and Medina are just a few that come to mind.
>
> Arabic language influence on the Spanish language
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language_influence_on_
> the_Spanish_language
>
>
>
> Laura Gonzalez

In reference to original baptismal entry...the father of the child was "Alguacil Bocanegra".

While the etymology of "alguacil" is well established as Arabic, the origin of the surname Bocanegra is indeed Italian...specifically Ligurian/Genoese.

I have been researching almost exclusively Italian and Portuguese genealogies recently and have discovered the origin of the Bocanegra surname in my Estrada-Bocanegra ancestry from Teocaltiche and Guadalajara.

The surname Boccanegra (Italian) or Bocanegra (Spanish) originated in northern Italy during the 13th century. The first Doge of Genova was named Simone Boccanegra. Go to =>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boccanegra

Interesting story about OUR last name...
In Italian [as in Spanish], bocca means "mouth and Ne(g)ra "black", so in English Boccanegra means "black mouth". Translation – Mouth Black, or in English Black Mouth.

During the 13th century the representation or depiction of evil was black (or Darkness) and the representation or depiction of speaking was the Mouth.

To say that one had a "black mouth" was to say that one was an "evil speaker" or one who "spoke of evil".

Although possessors of wisdom and knowledge that could aid mankind, the ancestors of this name were regarded as mystics, soothsayers, and alchemists, being branded by some as heretics, sorcerers, necromancers and warlocks. Despite this, they were the healers of their time, counsel to kings, and, ultimately, bringers of peace.

Simone Boccanegra (died 1363) was the first doge of Genoa, elected doge for life on September 24, 1339. His story was popularized by Antonio García Gutiérrez's 1843 play Simón Bocanegra and Giuseppe Verdi's 1857 opera Simon Boccanegra. Note the spellings in Spanish and Italian.

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Hi Steven,
How very interesting. I probably would have been burnt at the stake in 13th century Italy
with Bocanegra family and the fact that I'm left-handed. As you probably know "left" in Italian is "sinistra".
Alice
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 9/29/14, PacoHernandez73@msn.com wrote:

Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bocanegra e un cognome italiano
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Date: Monday, September 29, 2014, 5:57 PM

In reference to original
baptismal entry...the father of the child was "Alguacil
Bocanegra".

While the
etymology of "alguacil" is well established as
Arabic, the origin of the surname Bocanegra is indeed
Italian...specifically Ligurian/Genoese.

I have been researching almost exclusively
Italian and Portuguese genealogies recently and have
discovered the origin of the Bocanegra surname in my
Estrada-Bocanegra ancestry from Teocaltiche and
Guadalajara.

The surname
Boccanegra (Italian) or Bocanegra (Spanish) originated in
northern Italy during the 13th century. The first Doge of
Genova was named Simone Boccanegra.  Go to =>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boccanegra

Interesting story about OUR
last name...
In Italian [as in Spanish],
bocca means "mouth and Ne(g)ra "black", so in
English Boccanegra means "black mouth".
Translation – Mouth Black, or in English Black Mouth.

During the 13th century the
representation or depiction of evil was black (or Darkness)
and the representation or depiction of speaking was the
Mouth.

To say that one had
a "black mouth" was to say that one was an
"evil speaker" or one who "spoke of
evil".

Although
possessors of wisdom and knowledge that could aid mankind,
the ancestors of this name were regarded as mystics,
soothsayers, and alchemists, being branded by some as
heretics, sorcerers, necromancers and warlocks. Despite
this, they were the healers of their time, counsel to kings,
and, ultimately, bringers of peace.

Simone Boccanegra (died 1363) was the first
doge of Genoa, elected doge for life on September 24, 1339.
His story was popularized by Antonio García
Gutiérrez's 1843 play Simón Bocanegra and Giuseppe
Verdi's 1857 opera Simon Boccanegra. Note the spellings
in Spanish and Italian.

Steven Francisco Hernández López

After researching the origin of the word pantalón I found that it is from
the name of one of the most important principal characters found in La
*Commedia
dell'Arte* from the 16th century. It is very doubtful that it made it into
Arabic from Spanish in the 16th century or after especially since from what
I can find pantalon or bantalun or بنطلون isn't even used in Morocco or
the Maghreb. They use sarwel for pantalón.

Armando

On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 12:47 AM, wrote:

> Calzones and pantalones might be Latin in origin, but they're used in
> Arabic. So they got those words from the Spanish.
>
> There are indeed many Spanish words from Arabic, including our names:
> Guadalupe, Omar, Fatima, Lilia and Medina are just a few that come to mind.
>
> Arabic language influence on the Spanish language
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language_influence_on_
> the_Spanish_language
>
>
>
> Laura Gonzalez
>
>

I used to work with someone who had immigrated from Lebanon with his wife. One time, I walked into his office and he was on the phone with her, speaking in Arabic. At one point in the conversation, I was sure I heard the word "pantalones" distinctly. I thought it must be some other word that just had the same sound, as I don't speak Arabic. I asked him if he had been speaking to his wife about pants, and he said "Yes! You know Arabic?" I said no, the word for pants was the same in Spanish. We did a collective 'wow' and had a good laugh over that.

Last year, I went to the Middle East for a week for work. I wanted to learn a few words and phrases in order to get around, to ask directions, to shop, that kind of thing. I found that personally it was easier for me to learn Arabic words when I was using a Spanish-to-Arabic translator site. There are literally thousands of words that came into use in Castilian (typical Spanish) from the hundreds of years of Arabic rule of the Iberian peninsula. That and knowing that my family name seems to have deep roots in southern Spain (aka, Al Andalus) where the name Velez is spread throughout in names of towns, mountain ranges, and rivers, specifically names of places with towers (Ballis in Arabic) that had been established since the time of the Arabs, is what originally drove me to try and trace my family history. All very interesting stuff :)

Sandra Velez

Dear Steve,

Merry Christmas,

I wanted to add some information clarifying the Bocanegra stories

You stated:

Simone Boccanegra (died 1363) was the first doge of Genoa, elected doge for life on September 24, 1339. His story was popularized by Antonio García Gutiérrez's 1843 play Simón Bocanegra and Giuseppe Verdi's 1857 opera Simon Boccanegra. Note the spellings in Spanish and Italian.

My clarifications:
The truth is that Antonio Garcia Gutierrez's play was not exactly a true story. Simone Boccanegra was never a corsair, ever a sailor and he was not involved with a Fieshi. The author combined the stories of two brothers, Simon and Egidio, into one character.

He used Simone's name and position as doge of Genoa, combined with his brother egidios life as a sailor and corsair. Egidio was married to Maria Fieschi but it was not the dramatic story of the play I descend from Aegidio [Egidio] Boccanegra (aka Gil Barbanegra), a brother to the real Simone Boccanegra. Simon and Egidio are the sons of Giacomo Bocconegra and Genevra Saraceni. Egidio is named after his maternal grandfather. He and his son, Ambogio, had some great triumphs that have written in the history books.

The myth that the family picked up the name in the 13th century is not true as the family already has the surname in the twelfth century.

Although the play/opera is not a true story, they did use bits of true facts. Also This family has many interesting stories. Egidio's wife is a great niece to a Catholic Pope.

One interesting fact about this family is that their subjects had the choice of punishment for adultery. The traditional sentence of stoning would be waived if they agreed to become a slave.

R.A.Ricci

Hola miembros de Nuestro Ranchos: ¿Quieren escuchar la ópera de Giuseppe Verdi, “Simón Bocanegra”?
---------
On Saturday, April 9 @10:00 a.m. on KUSC (radio station in Southern California 91.5 FM or online @ www.kusc.org) the Verdi's opera "Simon Boccanegra" will be broadcast for those interested in a "story" about Genoa's first Doge.

Simon Boccanegra is an opera with a prologue and three acts by Giuseppe Verdi to an Italian libretto by Francesco Maria Piave, based on the play Simón Bocanegra (1843) by Antonio García Gutiérrez, whose play El trovador had been the basis for Verdi's 1853 opera, Il trovatore.
---------
El sábado, 9 de abril a las 10:00 a.m. van a transmitir la ópera “Simón Boccanegra” (91.5 FM – KUSC, una estación de radio en el sur de California o en la red en www.kusc.org). La ópera de Giuseppe Verdi será transmitida para todo aquel interesado en la “historia” del primer dux de Génova.

Simón Boccanegra es una ópera con música en un prólogo y tres actos, con música de Giuseppe Verdi, y libreto de Francesco Maria Piave, Giuseppe Montanelli y Arrigo Boito (responsable de la revisión), basado en una pieza teatral homónima de Antonio García Gutiérrez. La versión original fue estrenada en el Teatro La Fenice de Venecia el 12 de marzo de 1857.
----------

But if you miss it...you can always find it on YOUTUBE.COM

SFHL

Dear Steve,

I have only read about this opera. Thank you for providing the information. I look forward to listening to it.

Thanks again,

Rick A. Ricci

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