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Carlo Lomellin

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By Visitor - Posted on 13 January 2014

I just been wondering what is know about Carlos Lomellin. I am a decedent of him through his son Lucas. I have research him and from other post that I have seen I know that he worked on the mines? I know that he came from Genoa Italy. Nobody seems to know who his parents were. Is this because Carlos is a dead end or because nobody has research the records in Italy? 

Hi Steve,
It was Orange County. Mike Gutierrez invited me to your meeting. Does this group still meet? I would like to get list of the people that I met at that meeting? Is there someone I can contact for information?
Rick A Ricci

To Leon de Tejada
You stated that we cannot assume anything in regards to Carlo Lomellini and Luis Lomellini. We are not just guessing. We are gathering facts and looking for all the data that will guide us to the identities of Carlo and Luis(Luciano ) Lomellini. You are contributing to this search. You are right in guessing that they may be related. This Leonardo Lomellini that you mention is the son of Girolamo Lomellini and Brigida Lomellini.

This Leonardo Lomellini is a first cousin to our Carlo Lomellini's father, Vincenzo Lomellini.

Vincenzo's father Giacomo Lomellini and Girolamo Lomellini are brothers, sons of Tobia Lomellini and Giorgietta Gentile.

Right now We do not know if the two Leonardo Lomellinis are the same person. There was another Leonardo Lomellini married to Maria Lomellini, daughter of Marco Lomellini Lomellini This Leonardo Lomellini is the son of Pier Francesco Lomellini (son of Giuliano Lomellini and Brigida Lomellini) and Maria Lomellini (daughter of Giacomo Lomellini)
Marco Lomellini had another daughter that also married a Lomellini. His daughter Andreola Lomellini married Lorenzo Lomellini son of Giacomo Lomellini and Battina Grillo. This Lorenzo is brother to Tobia Lomellini, Carlo Lomellini's great grandfather.
Whichever Leonardo Lomellini it is, there is a relatively close relationship to Carlo Lomellini.
Please continue to post anything you find.
R A Ricci

To Steve

You are correct that we need to continue investigating the archives in the Sagrarios of Guadalajara, Valladolid, and Mexico City. However, I think that it is important to point out that the Valladolid Lomeli descend from Luis Lomeli and not Carlos. I believe that the Lomeli married to Pedro Villasenor Orosco and Francisco Villasenor in Valladolid descend from Luis Lomeli and Maria Olmos. Please let me know if your information differs from mine.
R A Ricci

Carlos Peredo

Rick

According to El Padre Ibarrola Luis Lomelín y su esposa María del Olmo fueron vecinos de Jiquilpan, Mich y su hija María casó con Juan de Villaseñor Patiño y ellos fueron los padres de Pedro Villaseñor Lomelín, el cual casó con Inés Fernández del Rincón; quienes tubieron a Juan Miguel de Villaseñor Lomelín, que casó con Elena Cortés Enríquez de Silva y esta última pareja fueron los padres de Joaquina de Villaseñor Cortés Lomelín, la que casó con su pariente Juan Gallaga Mandarte Lomelín y tubieron a Ana María Mandarte Villaseñor la mamá de MIGUEL HIDALGO Y COSTILLA.

That line is an interesting line that I have had the pleasure to research. But Hidalgos line doesn't connect to the masses in Los Altos. The line that I am most interested in confirming is Maria Lomelin Orosco descent from Luis Lomelin. This Maria Lomelin Orosco is the ancestor of many families in Los Altos de Jalisco. She is the wife of Francisco Villasenor. Is this Maria the daughter of juan Villasenor Orosco Patino and His wife Maria Lomelin?

From my what I have compiled on Hidalgo's line

"D. Juan de Viilasenor y Patino, bautizado en el Sarario de la Catedral de Valladolid el 12 de Julio de 1598
Padrinos: sus tios D. Francisco y Da. Beatriz Patino"
Fue due no de la hacienda la Lagunilla y condueno de la de Pomacuaro
Fue casado y velado segun el orden de la Santa Iglesia con
Dona Maria Lomelin y del Olmos
Originaria de Queretaro, hija legitima deli luster genoves D. Luis de Lomelin y de Maria del Olmo, personas de mucha distincion y nobleza y posedoras de various bienes de fortuna
Hubieron y procrearon entre otro hijos a
Pedro de Villasenor de Lomelin
.
These are Hidalgos ancestors. This description of Luis Lomelin fits what we would expect of a description of Luciano Lomellini Spinola (1) as he descends from noble lines from both his father and mother. Descriptions like this one is what one expects of a descendent of Napoleone Lomellini y Teodora di Giorgio di Negro and also from the Spinola families.

R A Ricci

In our research of Luis and Carlo Lomellini it seemed as we had little information to work with. But that is not so. We have gathered many little pieces that placed together like a jigsaw puzzle have helped us identify the possible and probable parents of the these two men. Some highly respected historians and genealogists have repeated the claim that they were brothers. We do not know where they got this information. These historians have not provided primary resources that we may inspect. We respected this claim but we realized that none of the present genealogists have seen or have any knowledge of a primary source to support this claim. Neither do we have any primary source to disprove this claim so we needed to proceed in our research as if it was possible that they were brothers, but also looking at data as if they were not brothers.
By looking at all the information that we have on these two men we were able to see that by separating our search into two directions we were able to use what we know about each one to identify their possible and probable parents.
Some of the information that we had of these two men was the same. They also had individual differences. The information that they share is first that they descend from the Lomellini family from Genoa with the patriarch, Vasallo Lumello from Meda Lumello (Vasallo was repeatedly named Consul of the Republic of Genoa). Another piece of information that they share is that they descend from the branch of the Lomellini that was heavily involved in businesses involving trade, shipping, and banking.

We researchers spent many years looking for the parents of these "brothers". We spent many years failing to find their parents. It wasn't until we brought up the possibility that they were not brothers that we could focus even more on the differences of Luis Lomellini and Carlo Lomellini, and there are differences.

Since most of us know that we descend from Carlo Lomellini the search shifted to his ancestors, putting aside Luis Lomelin for the time being.

The branch of the Lomellini family that was head and shoulders above the rest of the Lomellini family in trade, banking, and shipping descended from Napoleone Lomellini and Teodora di Giorgio di Negro. We have the direct line from Napoleone to Vasallo Lumello. From what we heard about them descending from a family involved in trade, shipping and banking it was logical to begin our search with Napoleone's descendant, Marco Lomellini, since he was a powerful businessman with many connections to the separate Lomellini branches. Through him we were able to connect with many of these branches.
Napoleone Lomellini makes it easier for us genealogists by placing conditions in his testament and will that insist on his directives be followed for many generations. Napoleone insisted that the consequence for not following his directives would be forfeiture of his inheritance. The person next in line in the genealogical table would then inherit and become executor. Actually three executors were named in the directives with two out of three making the decisions. Some decisions were not left open to interpretation by the executors. These decisions were made by Napoleone Lomellini. He placed some property in a trust that was to be shared by family members and never to be sold. He also left some assets to be used to help those in need. He left many assets to his children with specific directives to be followed. One of these directives involved keeping track of his descendants. This directive has contributed mightily to our research.

The Lomellini family testaments, wills, business contracts, genealogic family trees have great resources that I have mined looking for golden nuggets.

Looking through Napoleone Lomellini's descendants, Carlo Lomellini son of Vincenzo Lomellini and Porzia stands out as a candidate to be our Carlo Lomellini. Lots of little details brought together help reinforce making him a prime candidate as our Carlo Lomellini. Three of these details I will go into here.
1.) The persistent rumor of a BIG trading family, This detail is a given as he descends from Napoleone Lomellini. This family had palaces that still exist today and have been converted to Luxurious hotels.
2.) That Carlos family had something to do with slavery. Porzia was Vincenzo Lomellini's slave before he married her. We have this documentation, even the date that she baptized converting from a Muslim to Christianity where it states that she is Vincenzo's slave. In later records she is identified as first slave, then wife.
3.) That as he was identified in a primary source provided be Steven Hernendez, that he was originally from " de reinos de Castilla y Genova" just like our probable Carlo Lomellini and his family identified themselves, from two city-states. The two city states were allied during the time that we believe Carlo Lomellini was born.

As other little details are collected they seem to support this claim that they are one and the same. Yet we must remember in the back of our minds that many highly respected historians and genealogists claimed that they were brothers. Those of us that have benefited greatly from the immense works of of genealogists like Dr. Rito Romo Franco, Mariano Gonzalez Leal, Jaime Holcombe and Guillermo Teresa de Tovar tread carefully when discussing little mistakes in their voluminous work.

Next, we add Luis Lomelin to our discussion. Luis Lomellini ran in more of an elite aristocratic circle than Carlo did. Though Carlo was educated and showed some success in in his business endeavors, Carlo was more of lower upper class compared to Luis Lomellini who married one his daughters to the elite upper class, the Villasenor Orosco family.
If we are to consider that maybe Carlos, who had an elite upper class father, Vincenzo and a mother, Porzia, from the lowest of the low classes would find it advantageous to come to the new world to enjoy the benefits of the status of the well known Lomellini family while also not disclosing that his mother was from the opposite end of the social classes. He would probably just name his father Vincenzo Lomellini and not his mother. If Carlo did this and our Luis Lomellini is Luciano Lomellini Spinoza(1), Carlo's 4th cousin maybe people came to be believe they were brothers because Luciano Lomellini Spinoza also had a father with a similar name as did Carlo, Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini. This Luis descended from the elite upper aristocratic class from both parents, not just one like Carlo. This Luis would feel very comfortable associating with the Villasenor Orosco families which our Luis did. His daughters married well. This does not seem to be a stroke of luck. The circumstances dictate that Luis himself must have run in pretty high circles. This Luciano Lomellinis family and Carlo Lomellinis family did have connections through other close family members, along with connections to Marco Lomellinis family who took after his great grandfather Napoleone Lomellini.

After putting this scenario together after so many years of work I fell that we had come up with two great candidates for Carlo and Luis Lomellini.

We are still haunted by the past assumption by historians and genealogist that they were brothers. Does this explanation that both Carlo and Luciano Lomellini have a father named Vincenzo Lomellini satisfactorily explain why historians and genealogists thought they were were brothers. I have a very extensive collection of genealogical data that most likely contains all possible Carlo and Luis Lomellini. Up until yesterday, I had not found any Luis and Carlo Lomellini brothers near the correct time frame. After investigating this possibility more thoroughly, I originally thought thatThe only Carlo and Luciano Lomellini siblings that I have found are born too late by many decades. Their siblings records helped date them. At least this is what I thought after looking at the dates provided. Many months later, and more investigations, it seems that the dates provided were not birth dates and that there is a possibility that Carlos and Luis Lomelin were brothers after all.

It is not as solid a conclusion for Luciano Lomellini. There are many Luciano Lomellini that need to be investigated. There were many Carlo Lomellini but after much research, I could eliminate them one by one until there were only two possible candidates. I will do the same with the Luciano Lomellini, eliminating one by one those that could not possibly be Luis Lomelin. This will be more difficult as we have less information on Luis Lomelin than we did on Carlo Lomelin. What we should take into account with Luis Lomelin is why did the historians think that they were brothers. Taking this identification into question seems to narrow the field but also includes Luciano Lomellini Spinola(1) because even though they are not brothers, the fact that Carlo Lomellini (son of Porzia) and him share a father that has Vincenzo in their name. I call the father of Luciano Lomellini Spinolai(1) Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini and Carlo Lomellinis father only Vincenzo Lomellini because he was mostly known as Vincenzo and I saw only one record that also added "Paolo".

Taking into account all the information that we have presented so far, I see only two possible candidates for our Carlo Lomellini, and many possible candidates for Luciano Lomellini, though I believe that Luis Lomeli is either Luciano Lomellini Spinola(1) or Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2). We cannot discount the pair that are brothers yet.

If Carlo and Luis Lomeli of Mexico are brothers than they have to be Carlo Lomellini (2) and Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2)
They are the sons of Giacomo Lomellini and Paola Spinola
Girolamo Lomellini is the son of Giovanni Battista Lomellini and Lucia
Giovanni Battista is the son of Giacomo Lomellini and n. Crivella Della Spezia
Giacomo is the son of Domenico Lomellini and Bastiana de Saulo
Domenico is the son of Oronasio Lomellini and Peretta Vivaldi
Oronasio is the son of Damiano Lomellini and Battina Squarciafico
Damiano is the son of Onofrio Lomellini jr. and Romanella de Marini
Onofrio is the son of Onofrio Lomellini (Lumbello) Sr, and Luchina Pansano
Onofrio Sr. Is the son of Lodisio de Lumbello and his second wife Catarina Barbavari
Lodisio is the son of Riccardo de Lumbello + Catarina
Riccardo is the son of Oberto de Lumbello + Angela
Oberto is the son of Ansaldo da Lumello
Ansaldo is the son of Vasallo da Lumello

It comes down to only two possible Carlo Lomellinis for our Carlo Lomelin. Carlo Lomellini(1) was probably born c.1570, Carlo Lomellini(2) we don not have a specific birth date, only that the documents that name his siblings and his nephews and nieces place him as being alive in the early 1600's. Carlo is the youngest in his family. Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2)is the oldest in this family. I had originally ruled these brothers out, but went back for a second look. I ruled them out but went back again. All the document dates given do not specify what the dates mean. After researching Battilanas book, I have come to the conclusion that they may fit in the time frame based on what I have on Carlo and Luis Lomeli . This Carlo would actually fit better with the later 1584 birthdate. This Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2) would be closer to the 1570 date as I would pu him as about 10 to 15 years older than his younger brother Carlo, the tenth in this family. There is no story of slavery to go with this Carlo Lomellini(2). These Lomellini brothers do not come from the richer Lomellini branches so this Luciano Lomeli Spinola (2) would of had to become rich on his own and not through inheritance. I have also not found any business contracts involving this Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2) to explain him becoming rich and our Luis Lomeli from Mexico was extremely wealthy.
Wealth wise Luciano Lomellini Spinola(1) fits the bill as he descends from the wealthiest branch, the descendants of Napoleone Lomellini, as does Carlo Lomelini(1) even though Carlo also descends from the wealthier branch, his fathers choice of wife must have rubbed his family the wrong way and he would likely not have inherited as much money. Luciano Lomellini Spinola(1) and Carlo Lomellini (1) (son of Porzia) descend from Napoleone Lomellini so their grandparents lived in the Lomellini Palaces. Marco Lomellini is from a time much later than Napoleone, about 150 years later when he seems to be the wealthiest of all the Lomellini.
R A Ricci
This information is from my Book with a working title "mygenes2000". I have a copyright based on what I have written already but have not published it as I am editing it and proof reading the contents. Any information used from should reference me, the author. I am required to add this statement to stop anyone from later claiming that I took their material without referencing them. Titles cannot be copyrighted and I have not decided on one but needed a working title to submit my chapters for the copyright. I have called my work mygenes2000 in reference to my symbolic and biological contributions to my family tree. My only daughter was born in 2000.

Carlos Peredo

To León de Tejada et al

I just found in PARES a few records that I´m almost sure are related to the Lomellinis we are talking about but you can only find them searching for "Comelín"; and precisely, there are one or two records about a Leonardo "Comelin", I think that´s de son of Girolamo di Tobia that you mention in your post.

There´s another interesting record about "El magnífico" Benet Comelín doncel genovés mercader (I think in Barcelona) in a legal battle against another mercader genovés (image not available)

And there are one or two more documents mentioning some "Comelins"

Now, about the same time frame in which Carlo and Luis Lomelín lived in New Spain, there were some others with the same last name, does any one of you have some info about them?

I mean, for instance, there´s a Giovani Lomelín mmarrying 25-oct-1592 María Ramos, could he be the same Juan Carlos Lomelín that married María Cortés Benavides about 1609 ?

There´s Josepe Sánchez Lomelín who married Petronila de Soria ca 1584 and they baptized at least the following children in Pachuca :

Joseph 18-ago-1585
Manue 30-ene-1620

There´s also Agustina Lomelín marrying ca 1615 in México City Manuel del Castillo Villafañe;
María Lomelín who married ca 1605 the Captain Diego Barrientos Ribera Alcalde Mayor
who through their gandchildren Buenaventura and Cecilia connected with the Castilla Peralta y Rivadeneira, one of the most prominent families of that time and certainly "Royals" through the "Castilla" name.

Enough questions for today, hopefully we´ll have a more complete picture of this lastname both in Spain and in Mexico.

Regards

Carlos Peredo

I post here a line concerning one of those Comelinis I told you about in my last post.

"
13. Procura atorgada pels notaris de Tarragona Nicolau Rossell i Agustí Frexa a favor de Gaspar Spinola i Giovanni Comelino, mercaders genovesos residents a Barcelona (1542-08-21)"

As you can see, it involves two Genovese merchants living in Barcelona.

Would you agree with me that they made a mistake and that the last name in reality was Lomelín ?

I do not recall seeing Comelino seeing in any business deal with the Lomellini or Spinola but I might have overlooked it thinking that it was a graphical error. I agree with you that it is probably a mistake but we now must be on the lookout to see if this name comes up again. The Lomellini had many business deals with the other prominent families from Genoa that concerned interests outside of Genoa and in Barcelona, Castile, Aragon, Portugal, and Corsica. The Lomellini had multpple business interests throughout the Mediterranean.

If Comelino is not a graphical error than maybe it could be a variation of Lomellino in Basque.

You brought up a question regarding Maria Ramos and her husband Lomellini. At one time, Jaime Holcombe wrote that Carlo Lomelin and this man were the same person. We need to see if we can find his notes and see why he made this conclusion. Jaime Holcombe would include notes detailing his sources throughout most of his immense genealogical work but he did not provide sources on his information on Carlo Lomellin so we do not have any idea where he got this idea. In the beginning of my research I accepted his conclusions as facts but it wasn't until I was able to remove my research from his conclusions that I was able to focus on finding the Carlo Lomelin married to Maria Benavides. I do not know if Jaime Holcombe changed his mind on the Lomelin since I was only going on his earlier submissions to the Mormon library.

R A Ricci

To Leon de Tejada
Your post on Leonardo Lomellini and a business contract, along with a lead from Steven Hernandez, and information already in my possession, led me to go back and research an associate of Marco Lomellini y Lomellini. This has led to an interesting discovery that will finally lead to a completed and published book before the end of the summer. I am in the process of getting a copyright with an outline naming the chapters content and the first half of the chapters already written. I have all the information to complete the book. Once I get word from the publisher, I will provide details as to its content and availability.

Thank you
R A Ricci

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