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Important R1b news

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By Armando - Posted on 12 November 2013

This past weekend there was they had the 9th Annual International
Conference on Genetic Genealogy and some of what has been said on forums
for a while is now an official stance on the origins of the R1b haplogroup
and it's spread into Western Europe including Spain.

He talked about P311 which is the parent of P312 and U106 and U152 which
are all found in our region of research. Many of your ancestors belongs to
these groups.

"Hammer says that in his opinion, he thought that if P311 is so frequent
and widespread in Europe it must have been there a long time.
*However, it appears that he and most everyone else, was wrong. *
The hypothesis to be tested is if P311 originated prior to the Neolithic
wave, it would predict higher diversity it the near east, closer to the
origins of agriculture. If P311 originated after the expansion, would be
able to see it migrate across Europe and it would have had to replace an
existing population.

Because we now have sequences the DNA of about 40 ancient DNA specimens,
Michael turned to the ancient DNA literature....This evidence supports a
recent spread of haplogroup R lineages in western Europe about 5K years
ago. This also supports evidence that P311 moved into Europe after the
Neolithic agricultural transition and nearly displaced the previously
existing western European Neolithic Y, which appears to be G2a."

http://dna-explained.com/2013/11/12/2013-family-tree-dna-conference-day-2/

He also talked about the movement of R1b from eastern Europe to western
Europe, which goes against the old Franco-Cantrabrian refugium.

"We are now talking about population movements without about the past 4,000
years. R1b appears in the Caucasus by the early Neolithic. By the end of
the Neolithic, it is still isolated to pockets in Eastern Europe. Then in
the Early-Mid Bronze age about 4500-4000 years ago, R1b was found in
central Europe. By about 4000-3500 years ago, R1b begins to reach western
Europe. In the Iron Age 3200-3000 years ago there was a period of
differentiation in centers of renewed expansion. It is possible that this
continued through the Iron Age and can be seen as recently as 2,000 years
ago. There is a lot left to be learned and the ancient DNA contribution
will be very large to determine the R1b overtaking of the Neolithic
chromosomes."

http://www.ancestorcentral.com/archives/821

Here is a picture of the movement of P312 going west from east and the
subclade Z195, a child of P312 and DF27, showing up in France. From there
subclades of Z195 made their way into Spain.

http://www.ancestorcentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/8037.jpg

There is much more information in the blogs such as the only ancient
remains found in western Europe from 5,000 to 7,000 years ago belong to
haplogroups G2a, G2a3, I2a, F, and E1bibi. So those were there before R1b.

Saludos,
Armando

Armando,
A very interesting paper on mtDNA components of the Late Mesolithic to present day in Central Europe appeared in the 11 October 2013 issue of the magazine Science 342: 257-261. The authors characterized the mtDNA of 364 ancient individuals spanning early Neolithic to Early Bronze Age (5500 to 1500 years BC).

Jaime Alvarado

Hello Jaime,

I had read about it when Dienekes posted about it on his blog at
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/10/ancient-central-european-mtdna-across.html

I hadn't posted about it because very few of our members that have maternal
ancestry in our region of study have those mtDNA markers, even though there
definitely are some. The vast majority of them have Amerindian mtDNA.

It is however very interesting in how they tied the mtDNA to multiple waves
of people in Europe.

I am really looking forward to new DNA studies of ancient remains such as a
recent one that shows a 17,000 year old SIberian with haplogroup R and
mtDNA U but with autosomal components that match closely to both west
Eurasians and Native Americans. They take this to mean that some of the
west Asian autosomal components found in Native Americans is partly from
pre-Columbian contact. This does apply to us since even people with all of
their documented ancestry showing to be Spanish have 15-20% Amerindian in
their autosomal DNA.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/11/ancient-dna-from-upper-paleolithic-lake.html

Armando

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 9:35 AM, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:

> Armando,
> A very interesting paper on mtDNA components of the Late Mesolithic to
> present day in Central Europe appeared in the 11 October 2013 issue of the
> magazine Science 342: 257-261. The authors characterized the mtDNA of 364
> ancient individuals spanning early Neolithic to Early Bronze Age (5500 to
> 1500 years BC).
>
> Jaime Alvarado

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