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New Member Introduction and request for assistance on Gonzalez de Hermosillo

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By jrefugioghermosillo - Posted on 18 September 2013

First of all, I want to thank all of you for all of the amazing work you've
done: when I began this project at the beginning of the summer, I saved my
maternal grandfather's ancestry for last, because I assumed it would be the
most difficult. We don't know much about our patriarch, J. Refugio G.
Hermosillo, before he crossed the border in 1926; he was 43 at the time,
and had already lived a lifetime. We had no contact with his family, his
parents and siblings dying long before we were born. All we knew was that
he was from a small town in Zacatecas called Montesa, and that, according
to him, he descended from one of the founding families. So, I wasn't
expecting to find much. But was I wrong! I started with his birth
certificate and the 3 generations named on it, and found the LDS website;
by the end of the first weekend, I had traced him all the way back to his
g2 grandparents, and only stopped, because the curas didn't list
grandparents before the late 18th Century (as you all know). But anyway, I
want to thank all of you, because I know SOMEONE had to index those
archives relative to Nueva Galicia, and I have a feeling it was YOU. MIL
GRACIAS A TODOS USTEDES, los nuevosrancheros y los somosprimoseros, for the
trailblazing work you've done and are doing, in regards to researching and
sharing the genealogy and history of Nueva Galicia and colonial Mexico in
general! (and for helping me make my 82 year-old mother and her 8 surviving
siblings very happy, learning about their colorful ancestors!)

A little background on my line: my grandfather, Jose Refugio Gonzalez, was
born in Montesa, Zacatecas, 4 Jul 1883, to Antonio Gonzalez and Susana
Sanchez. He was born with the Gonzalez surname, but some time while still
in Mexico, we figure around 1905, he changed it to "Hermosillo"; we never
knew why he changed it (we've often joked that he obviously didn't want
someone to find him…), nor why he chose "Hermosillo," but that's the name
he gave to his wife, Ana Olivas, of Juarez, as well as to their 11
children, born in California, and it's the name proudly worn by 5
generations of their descendants. "J. Refugio G. Hermosillo" was how he
always signed his name, and is the name on his death certificate and
tombstone.

That said, I started this endeavor not expecting to research the surname
"Hermosillo," since we assumed it had no history in the family prior to
1905 (and not even knowing the history of the surname in los Altos) - that
is, until I found the 1798 marriage record for grandfather's great
grandparents, Rafael Gonzalez & Maria Dolores de Avila, which clearly lists
the groom as:

"RAFAEL GONZALES DE HERMOSILLO, hijo legitimo de VICENTE GONZALES DE
HERMOSILLO y de JUANA DOROTHEA DIAZ DE LEON."

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V5FZ-TSC

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15272-51812-83?cc=1804458&wc=M99V-JL9:n193251689

I was floored! I was thrilled! Alli esta mi segundo apellido! Y sera
alguien de categoria! Who was this GONZALEZ DE HERMOSILLO?? What did he
do?? How are we connected to him? What didn't abuelo tell us??

And that's where my journey really began. I googled the name and was led to
Nuestros Ranchos, amongst other websites, and I began reading through the
message boards. I learned about the conquistador, and his descendants
settling in los Altos, and about Gonzalez Leal's tomes, and the 117 spanish
families identified as the first-comers (and many whose surnames appear in
my tree), and how they intermarried throughout the Spanish Mandate (as I
witnessed, in my tree). And as I continue my research and get to know my
ancestors, I begin to feel a part of that history, that I am a product of
these adventurers, these hacendados, asistentas, capitanes, peones,
esclavos, and maybe even a Tlataoni… I was hooked! I need more! This is
better than a dusty old history book or any old video game!

So here I am, hoping to learn more about who it took to make me who I am,
and how they lived their lives, and hoping to share my findings with others
with the same intention, as well as with the same love for history. Muchos
somos parientes: les mando un fuerte abrazo. Y perdoname por no escribir
en español, pero ya esta tarde y !hablo mucho!

My focus families are the following (I group them because these branches
tend to intermarry or are associated:

En Pinos & Ojuelos & Aguascalientes:

Gonzalez de Hermosillo,

Gil de Esparza

Diaz de Leon

De Avila

Carrillo Lisardi

Gonzalez Murguia

Duron

Alvarado

Martin de Sotomayor, Martin de Camacho, Lozano, de Ruedas y de Islas, and
associated lines

En Pinos & los Altos & Aguascalientes:

Gomez [de Sotomayor]

Tiscareño de Huerta (and the Tiscareño, Ruiz de Esparza and associated
lines)

Ruiz de Villaseñor

Sanchez de la Mejorada

Muñoz de ?

En Pinos & Aguascalientes:

Delgado (Diego & Isabel de Isla Martinez Lozano)

Delgado y Ocampo & Valensuela & Chevarria Merquelan

Gaitan & Arias de Bedolla (roots in SLP & GTO, including Cortes y Galvan)

Rodriguez de Herrera o de Jara

Other surnames I'm working on are Dominguez Samudio & Lopez del Castillo,
Candelas & Buenrostro, Bernal de la Serda, Lopez de los Reyes, Ortiz de
Anda.

And again, thank all of you, for laying down the groundwork, and making it
easier for us newbies, to find our way to our ancestors. .

Gracias y saludos,

Manuel Diez Hermosillo "Manny"

http://www.nuestrosranchos.com/en/jrefugioghermosillo

Introductions aside, I have my first request for assistance:

WHICH VICENTE GONZALES DE HERMOSILLO MARRIED JUANA DOROTHEA DIAZ DE LEON?

I have his name appearing in the documents of his children, grandchildren
and widow, but I have none of his vitals. And I've seen his name using
various combinations of "Jose Vicente Ferrer Gonzalez de Hermosillo"
(though not all at the same time). The problem is, there are numerous
"Vicente Gonzalez's" living during his possible time period and living in
the communities where he most likely lived (Pinos, Ojuelos y los Altos en
general, maybe Aguascalientes). I've been constructing the trees of each
and every one of them, to see which would correspond with mine, and I've
narrowed it down to three (for now). But I'm still stalled.

Here's what I have on my G4's Vicente Gonzalez and Juana Dorothea Diaz:

JOSE VICENTE FERRER GONZALEZ DE HERMOSILLO

b. 1734-1744. He married JUANA DOROTHEA DIAZ DE LEON, daughter of Andres
Diaz Duron and Maria Estephania Carrillo Diaz, some time between 1760-1764,
either in Pinos, Zacatecas, or in Ojuelos, Jalisco. She was born 4 June
1744 in Pinos, Zacatecas.

Their children were:

1. Ma. Josepha Ignasia Pheliciana Gonzalez de Hermosillo, b. 19 Nov
1764, Ojuelos, Jalisco.
2. Jose Vicente Gonzalez de Hermosillo, b. 11 Jun 1766, Pinos, Zacatecas
3. Julian Antonio Rafael Gonzalez Diaz, b. 16 Apr 1768, Ojuelos, Jalisco.
4. Maria Guadalupe de Santiago Gonzalez Diaz, b. 16 Jan 1771, Ojuelos,
Jalisco.
5. Antonio Rafael Gonzalez de Hermosillo, b. 3 Mar 1773, Ojuelos,
Jalisco.
6. Jose Romano Gonzalez Diaz, b. 12 Aug 1777, Montesa, Pinos, Zacatecas
7. Maria Josefa Ignasia Gonzalez Diaz, b. 29 Mar 1779, Montesa, Pinos,
Zacatecas.

They zigzag through those two communities, which is unusual in my lines.
The distance isn't great, but it wasn't like they could hop in the chevy
and drive to abuela's house, right? What did he do, that kept him (or her)
moving between ranchos?

Since their first child Maria Josefa Ignacia Phelicana was born on the
Buenavista in Ojuelos, in Nov 1764, I thought that might be a good starting
point for his birthplace and marriage. But again, it can be anywhere.

Juana Dorothea Diaz, widowed, would marry a second time to Francisco Xavier
Alonso, on 30 Nov 1781, in Montesa, Pinos, Zacatecas. So Vicente Gonzalez
died some time between 1779-1781, and probably in Montesa, Pinos. Juana
Dorothea was born in 1744, Vicente could've been born around the same time,
and just died tragically young. But, what if he was older, and had been
married before, and with children?

That is where I am. If anyone can lead me in the right direction, it would
be greatly appreciated, and I hope to pay it forward!

PS - On the partida for Rafael & Maria Dolores, note the padrinos: Jose
Trinidad Gil Esparza and Maria Ygnacia Gonzalez - Rafael's younger sister
and her fiance, who would marry two months later, their partida on the
opposite page: the couples took turns being each other's padrinos! Also,
Jose Trinidad was the brother of another g3 grandfather, Alexo Gil de
Esparza. I'm stuck on that line, as well: Gil's and Ruiz de Esparza's, from
Aguascalientes?

Welcome Primo...and BRAVO for the best intro I've seen here.

Wow you're research is amazing! Welcome to Nuestros Ranchos and you are obviously a wonderful addition.
Linda Castanon-Long in B.C.

________________________________
From: Manny Diez
To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:17 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] New Member Introduction and request for assistance on Gonzalez de Hermosillo

First of all, I want to thank all of you for all of the amazing work you've
done: when I began this project at the beginning of the summer, I saved my
maternal grandfather's ancestry for last, because I assumed it would be the
most difficult. We don't know much about our patriarch, J. Refugio G.
Hermosillo, before he crossed the border in 1926; he was 43 at the time,
and had already lived a lifetime. We had no contact with his family, his
parents and siblings dying long before we were born. All we knew was that
he was from a small town in Zacatecas called Montesa, and that, according
to him, he descended from one of the founding families. So, I wasn't
expecting to find much. But was I wrong! I started with his birth
certificate and the 3 generations named on it, and found the LDS website;
by the end of the first weekend, I had traced him all the way back to his
g2 grandparents, and only stopped, because the curas didn't list
grandparents before the late 18th Century (as you all know). But anyway, I
want to thank all of you, because I know SOMEONE had to index those
archives relative to Nueva Galicia, and I have a feeling it was YOU. MIL
GRACIAS A TODOS USTEDES, los nuevosrancheros y los somosprimoseros, for the
trailblazing work you've done and are doing, in regards to researching and
sharing the genealogy and history of Nueva Galicia and colonial Mexico in
general! (and for helping me make my 82 year-old mother and her 8 surviving
siblings very happy, learning about their colorful ancestors!)

A little background on my line: my grandfather, Jose Refugio Gonzalez, was
born in Montesa, Zacatecas, 4 Jul 1883, to Antonio Gonzalez and Susana
Sanchez. He was born with the Gonzalez surname, but some time while still
in Mexico, we figure around 1905, he changed it to "Hermosillo"; we never
knew why he changed it (we've often joked that he obviously didn't want
someone to find him…), nor why he chose "Hermosillo," but that's the name
he gave to his wife, Ana Olivas, of Juarez, as well as to their 11
children, born in California, and it's the name proudly worn by 5
generations of their descendants. "J. Refugio G. Hermosillo" was how he
always signed his name, and is the name on his death certificate and
tombstone.

That said, I started this endeavor not expecting to research the surname
"Hermosillo,"  since we assumed it had no history in the family prior to
1905 (and not even knowing the history of the surname in los Altos) - that
is, until I found the 1798 marriage record for grandfather's great
grandparents, Rafael Gonzalez & Maria Dolores de Avila, which clearly lists
the groom as:

"RAFAEL GONZALES DE HERMOSILLO, hijo legitimo de VICENTE GONZALES DE
HERMOSILLO y de JUANA DOROTHEA DIAZ DE LEON."

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V5FZ-TSC

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15272-51812-83?cc=1804458&wc=M99V-JL9:n193251689

I was floored! I was thrilled! Alli esta mi segundo apellido! Y sera
alguien de categoria! Who was this GONZALEZ DE HERMOSILLO?? What did he
do?? How are we connected to him? What didn't abuelo tell us??

And that's where my journey really began. I googled the name and was led to
Nuestros Ranchos, amongst other websites, and I began reading through the
message boards. I learned about the conquistador, and his descendants
settling in los Altos, and about Gonzalez Leal's tomes, and the 117 spanish
families identified as the first-comers (and many whose surnames appear in
my tree), and how they intermarried throughout the Spanish Mandate (as I
witnessed, in my tree). And as I continue my research and get to know my
ancestors, I begin to feel a part of that history, that I am a product of
these adventurers, these hacendados, asistentas, capitanes, peones,
esclavos, and maybe even a Tlataoni… I was hooked! I need more! This is
better than a dusty old history book or any old video game!

So here I am, hoping to learn more about who it took to make me who I am,
and how they lived their lives, and hoping to share my findings with others
with the same intention, as well as with the same love for history. Muchos
somos parientes: les mando un fuerte abrazo.  Y perdoname por no escribir
en español, pero ya esta tarde y !hablo mucho!

My focus families are the following (I group them because these branches
tend to intermarry or are associated:

En Pinos & Ojuelos & Aguascalientes:

Gonzalez de Hermosillo,

Gil de Esparza

Diaz de Leon

De Avila

Carrillo Lisardi

Gonzalez Murguia

Duron

Alvarado

Martin de Sotomayor, Martin de Camacho, Lozano, de Ruedas y de Islas, and
associated lines

En Pinos & los Altos & Aguascalientes:

Gomez [de Sotomayor]

Tiscareño de Huerta (and the Tiscareño, Ruiz de Esparza and associated
lines)

Ruiz de Villaseñor

Sanchez de la Mejorada

Muñoz de ?

En Pinos & Aguascalientes:

Delgado (Diego & Isabel de Isla Martinez Lozano)

Delgado y Ocampo & Valensuela & Chevarria Merquelan

Gaitan & Arias de Bedolla (roots in SLP & GTO, including Cortes y Galvan)

Rodriguez de Herrera o de Jara

Other surnames I'm working on are Dominguez Samudio & Lopez del Castillo,
Candelas & Buenrostro, Bernal de la Serda, Lopez de los Reyes, Ortiz de
Anda.

And again, thank all of you, for laying down the groundwork, and making it
easier for us newbies, to find our way to our ancestors. .

Gracias y saludos,

Manuel Diez Hermosillo "Manny"

http://www.nuestrosranchos.com/en/jrefugioghermosillo

Introductions aside, I have my first request for assistance:

WHICH VICENTE GONZALES DE HERMOSILLO MARRIED JUANA DOROTHEA DIAZ DE LEON?

I have his name appearing in the documents of his children, grandchildren
and widow, but I have none of his vitals. And I've seen his name using
various combinations of "Jose Vicente Ferrer Gonzalez de Hermosillo"
(though not all at the same time). The problem is, there are numerous
"Vicente Gonzalez's" living during his possible time period and living in
the communities where he most likely lived (Pinos, Ojuelos y los Altos en
general, maybe Aguascalientes). I've been constructing the trees of each
and every one of them, to see which would correspond with mine, and I've
narrowed it down to three (for now). But I'm still stalled.

Here's what I have on my G4's Vicente Gonzalez and Juana Dorothea Diaz:

JOSE VICENTE FERRER GONZALEZ DE HERMOSILLO

b. 1734-1744. He married JUANA DOROTHEA DIAZ DE LEON, daughter of Andres
Diaz Duron and Maria Estephania Carrillo Diaz, some time between 1760-1764,
either in Pinos, Zacatecas, or in Ojuelos, Jalisco. She was born 4 June
1744 in Pinos, Zacatecas.

Their children were:

  1. Ma. Josepha Ignasia Pheliciana Gonzalez de Hermosillo,  b. 19 Nov
  1764, Ojuelos, Jalisco.
  2. Jose Vicente Gonzalez de Hermosillo, b. 11 Jun 1766, Pinos, Zacatecas
  3. Julian Antonio Rafael Gonzalez Diaz, b. 16 Apr 1768, Ojuelos, Jalisco.
  4. Maria Guadalupe de Santiago Gonzalez Diaz, b. 16 Jan 1771, Ojuelos,
  Jalisco.
  5. Antonio Rafael Gonzalez de Hermosillo, b. 3 Mar 1773, Ojuelos,
  Jalisco.
  6. Jose Romano Gonzalez Diaz, b. 12 Aug 1777, Montesa, Pinos, Zacatecas
  7. Maria Josefa Ignasia Gonzalez Diaz, b. 29 Mar 1779, Montesa, Pinos,
  Zacatecas.

They zigzag through those two communities, which is unusual in my lines.
The distance isn't great, but it wasn't like they could hop in the chevy
and drive to abuela's house, right? What did he do, that kept him (or her)
moving between ranchos?

Since their first child Maria Josefa Ignacia Phelicana was born on the
Buenavista in Ojuelos, in Nov 1764, I thought that might be a good starting
point for his birthplace and marriage. But again, it can be anywhere.

Juana Dorothea Diaz, widowed, would marry a second time to Francisco Xavier
Alonso, on 30 Nov 1781, in Montesa, Pinos, Zacatecas. So Vicente Gonzalez
died some time between 1779-1781, and probably in Montesa, Pinos. Juana
Dorothea was born in 1744, Vicente could've been born around the same time,
and just died tragically young. But, what if he was older, and had been
married before, and with children?

That is where I am. If anyone can lead me in the right direction, it would
be greatly appreciated, and I hope to pay it forward!

PS - On the partida for Rafael & Maria Dolores, note the padrinos: Jose
Trinidad Gil Esparza and Maria Ygnacia Gonzalez - Rafael's younger sister
and her fiance, who would marry two months later, their partida on the
opposite page: the couples took turns being each other's padrinos! Also,
Jose Trinidad was the brother of another g3 grandfather, Alexo Gil de
Esparza. I'm stuck on that line, as well: Gil's and Ruiz de Esparza's, from
Aguascalientes?

I'm trying to determine what is the correct origin of the González de
Hermosillo. Elsewhere on the forum I've see this:

· Pedro Fernández de Hermosilla
· Alonso de Hermosilla casó a Catalina González hija de Tomás González
· Juan González de Hermosillo c Catalina Ramírez
· Juan González de Hermosillo c Isabel de Escobar hija del Conq. Juan de
Burgos
· Juan González de Hermosillo. Casó a María Muñoz Cabeza de Vaca hija de
Francisco Muñoz y de aquí nació la línea alteña.
Then it seemed as though Juan González de Hermosillo and Ana Rodríguez
Magdaleno were agreed upon as the parents of the Juan González de
Hermosillo that married María Muñoz. But lately, I've seen several websites
list Gonzalo García de Hermosillo as the origin of our González de
Hermosillo.

Since, my Diego Ildefonso Ramírez de Hermosillo uses Ramírez, it makes
sense that the line would travel through Catalina Ramírez and Juan González
de Hermosillo, but I don't know.

Is there anyone in the forum that has a theory?

Paige Herrera

Hi Paige, My name is Robert Gonzalez, I am a direct descendent of Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo, he and Maria Munoz are my 10th great grandparents.

All the research I've done as of late shows Gonzalo Garcia de Hermosillo as Juan's father. ( And a brother of the same name )

I've been working with a very nice gentleman from Spain who is helping me with such questions, but it's been slow going. As you may be aware, Juan was from Guadalcanal, perhaps some of the confusion comes from the origins of the de Hermosilla line. It appears (at the moment ) that the family origins are indeed from the province of Burgos, specifically Ona\Briviesca, of which Hermosilla is a part of. Before of course they made their way south to Guadalcanal. I don't want to jump the gun and give bad info, I need to sort out names and dates, but the line may include members of the military orders of Santiago and the so called Caballeros de Banda de Castilla. I've come across spelling variations, Gunsaliz,Gonzalis,Gonsales and of course there are many Lopez,Fernandez,Ramirez,Alonso's to sort out as well. I have seen a website Geni.com with some of those names, the farthest back is Pedro Fernandez de Hermosillo with a birthdate of 1450 in Spain. I don't know who posted that info,I haven't run across those names as of yet. It does concern me that names are listed as "Hermosillo" as opposed to "Hermosilla" as the name was known in Spain.

Perhaps Armando can help shed some light on all this as well. I've been meaning to contact him and share what I have with him as well as my other primos who share this lineage.

Best,

Robert~

Hi Paige,

There’s been some confusion regarding the origin of the Gonzalez de Hermosillo who proliferated throughout Nueva Galicia. As Robert mentioned, it’s been determined that the line originated with Juan Gonzalez de Hermosilla & Maria Muñoz, from Guadalcanal, Sevilla, and he was the son of Gonzalo Garcia de Hermosilla.

Here’s a link to one discussion on that topic: views:http://www.nuestrosranchos.com/en/node/19948

If you descend from the Diego Alonso’s, then the “Ramirez” probably comes from Nicolas Ramirez, whose daughter Paula de Torres married Diego Alonso del Pedroso y Hermosillo. Their offspring used “Ramirez de Hermosillo.” There were 5 Diego Alonso’s, in a direct line, here’s the first four:

Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo & Maria Muñoz m. Guadalcanal, Sevilla antes de Extremadura, España.
http://www.nuestrosranchos.com/es/node/19948#comment-21858
Diego Alonso del Pedroso & Paula Ramirez Torres
Proof of genealogy
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18410-37884-27?cc=1874591&wc=M99L-KSJ:n268881218
Diego Alonso de Hermosillo & Luisa Muñoz de Nava m. 23 Feb 1645
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19053-2338-11?cc=1874591&wc=M99L-JJF:n2021992793
Proof of genealogy
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18410-37884-27?cc=1874591&wc=M99L-KSJ:n268881218
Diego Alonso de Hermosillo & Juana de Alderete m. 19 Feb 1669 Teocaltiche
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19053-3066-6?cc=1874591&wc=12510890
Proof of genealogy
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18410-37884-27?cc=1874591&wc=M99L-KSJ:n268881218
Diego Ildefonso Gonzalez de Hermosillo & Lorenza Manuela Cabrera m. 13 May 1716 Asientos
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11877-64280-42?cc=1502404&wc=M99K-S6J:n907426242
Información Matrimonial https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11132-148155-54?cc=1502404&wc=M99K-S83:523225721
Vicente Gonzalez de Hermosillo & Juana Dorothea Díaz de Leon married about Jan 1764
Información Matrimonial https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15243-320-34?cc=1804458&wc=M99V-J7Q:n1370994700
Rafael Gonzalez de Hermosillo & Maria Dolores de Avila m 25 Nov 1798, Pinos.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15272-51812-83?cc=1804458&wc=M99V-JL9:n193251689
Juan Gonzalez & Asuncion Gil de Esparza, b. 02 Apr 1805, Aguascalientes; m3 Asuncion Gil Esparza, c. 1829, probably in Pinos.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11631-273053-80?cc=1502404&wc=M99K-39L:334154385
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15257-11764-9?cc=1804458&wc=M99V-NQF:n818593881
Antonio Gonzalez & Susana Sanchez, m. 20 Jun 1869, Pinos
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15242-652-90?cc=1804458&wc=M99V-JLG:1544268921

Andres Munoz de Hermosillo and Lorenza? Tiscareno also had a son named Diego Alonso de Hermosillo. So, the name appears in various lines, in different generations & places.

Who was your Diego Ildefonso married to, and where did your people live?

And Robert, I'd love to be part of your call-up, Gonzalez de Hermosillo being my main interest. I have some new findings regarding the Diego Alonso line that I'd like to share.

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Paige,

As Robert and Manny have told you, the paternal line of the González de Hermosillo line in Jalisco, which also spread to nearby Aguascalientes and Zacatecas, begins with Juan González de Hermosillo and María Muñoz from Guadalcanal, Sevilla which is now part of Andalucía, España. The father of Juan González de Hermosillo was Gonzalo García de Hermosillo based on a combination of two different documents that Sergio Gutiérrez very kindly commented on in two different threads pointing out the proof. Manny provided the link to one of those threads which is the one I had on Ana Rodríguez Magdaleno. So you don't have to go looking for it again the link is http://www.nuestrosranchos.com/en/node/19948

The reason for me posting this information is so you can understand how those documents prove the ancestry and where in that thread the proof is found even though the full thread is good to have and understanding of how and when the actual genealogy was fully understood by us.

The two documents that provide the proof of the origins of the González de Hermosillo line are a petition for Priestly Major Orders http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_orders and a petition for a license for to go to the Indies (America). Both of those documents are paleographed in the above thread under the post titled Solicitud Para Ordenes Mayores de Gonzalo de Hermosillo en 1655.

The petition for Priestly Major Orders was for Gonzalo Ramírez de Hermosillo on 15 July 1665. In the document Domingo de Lomelín provides testimony of the ancestry of Gonzalo Ramírez de Hermosillo. The portion that pertains specifically to his González de Hermosillo ancestry states that he was "hijo legitimo de Sebastian Ramírez y de Maria de Hermosillo....Juan de Aceves Rascón y a Beatriz de Hermosillo padres de la dicha Maria de Hermosillo y abuelos del dicho Gonzalo de Hermosillo [the petitioner] y que el dicho Juan de Aceves era natural de la ciudad de México y la dicha Beatriz de Hermosillo era de esta jurisdiccion hija legitima de Juan González de Hermosillo y de Ana Muñoz su mujer naturales de Guadalcanal y sabe que los susodichos los unos y los otros son cristianos viejos sin tener raza de moros ni de judios."

That above means that Juan González de Hermosillo y de Ana Muñoz were originally from Guadalcanal and they had Beatriz de Hermosillo as a legitimate daughter who married Juan de Aceves Rascón from Mexico City and they had María de Hermosillo who married Sebastián Ramírez who had Gonzalo Ramírez de Hermosillo as a legitimate son.

The petition for a license to go to the Indies (America) was started by Gonzalo García Hermosillo, a brother of Juan González de Hermosillo, 12 Oct de 1581 while he was living in Zacatecas and he asked to have his brother sent for. That information is found in a thread at http://www.nuestrosranchos.com/en/node/18947#comment-19622 in a post by Guillermo Tovar de Teresa titled El genearca de los González de Hermosillo but his post has erroneous information as far as the name of the brother and of the father of Juan González de Hermosillo. The correct names are towards the end of this post.

The original documents can be downloaded from http://pares.mcu.es/ by going to Búsqueda Avanzada then putting in INDIFERENTE,2060,N.138 under FILTRO POR SIGNATURA then click Buscar then click Indiferente General then click on Juan González de Hermosilla then on ver imágenes. Then you can download the documents from there.

Once Juan González de Hermosillo was sent for he put in his petition for a license in 1582. On the first page of that document it states "Juan González de Hermosilla labrador vzo (vecino) de la villa de Guadalcanal dice que el tiene un hermano en la Nueva España en las minas de las Zacatecas y a enviado a llamar para hacerle algun bien porque el aca padece necesidades suppco a.v. ala [suplico a vuestra alteza] le haga merced de dar licencia para que pueda pasar con sus muger hijos atento y que no es de los prohibidos para pasar aquellas partes y en ello recibiran merced y que puedan llevar una una moça para su servicio"

So in that part we see that Juan González de Hermosillo was sent for by his brother in the mines of Zacatecas and that he was already married with kids in Guadalcanal and asked to go to Nueva España with his family and a young female servant.

The third image of the petition names his brother as Gonzalo García de Hermosilla.

The fifth image is the letter from Zacatecas which states "Sepan cuantos esta carta vieren, como yo, Gonzalo García Hermosillo... para que en mi nombre podaiís ir a la villa de Guadalcanal que es en los reinos de Castilla a traer de dicha villa a mi hermano Juan González de Hermosillo, mi hermano, hijo de Gonzalo García de Hermosillo..... que es hecho en las minas de los Zacatecas a once días del mes de octubre de mil quinientos ochenta y un años..."

So here we see that Juan González de Hermosillo and Gonzalo García Hermosillo are calling each other brothers and Gonzalo states that the father of Juan González de Hermosillo is named Gonzalo García de Hermosillo. We can assume that since all three use the surname Hermosillo that the two brothers had the same father.

In summary there are two different documents 83 years apart that maintain the Juan González de Hermosillo and María Muñoz were from Guadalcanal, Spain. One of those documents verifies that they were married with kids in 1582, while in Guadalcanal, which means it is impossible for that Juan González de Hermosillo to have had anything to do with the Juan González de Hermosillo b. 8 de Julio de 1571 en Asunción, Cd. De Méx who was the son of Juan González de Hermosillo cc Ana Rodríguez Magdaleno.

Hopefully this post makes it clear so that all of the trees that have erroneous information can be corrected.

Armando

Armando, Manny, Robert,

That was an exhaustive amount of information that clearly proves the
lineage of the Juan González de Hermosillo married to María Muñoz. Gonzalo
García de Hermosillo is definitely the origin of our González de
Hermosillo.

Do we know who this Juan is or how he's connected to our González de
Hermosillo:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-9758-12358-6?cc=1615259&wc=MCS1-1N5:122580201,125329801

No, we don't know. The fact that he had the same name and assumed to be living in the same time period in Mexico caused people to think that he was the one that was the patriarch of the lineage in Los Altos. In reality they weren't both living in Mexico the whole time. Our Juan González de Hermosillo was living in Spain since his birth sometime before 1562 and 1582. We don't know what happened to the Juan González de Hermosillo born in Mexico City on 8 July 1571.

If you notice in my thread I had provided to you previously at http://www.nuestrosranchos.com/es/node/19948 I ask about Ana Rodríguez Magdaleno, the wife of Juan González de Hermosillo. That is the exact same couple that are the parents of the one that you have a link to in your post. If you go further down in my thread on Ana Rodríguez Magdaleno you will see the information by Daniel much of which you also posted in your first post of this thread that said -

· Pedro Fernández de Hermosilla
· Alonso de Hermosilla casó a Catalina González hija de Tomás González
· Juan González de Hermosillo c Catalina Ramírez
· Juan González de Hermosillo c Isabel de Escobar hija del Conq. Juan de Burgos
· Juan González de Hermosillo b. 8 de Julio de 1571 en Asunción, Cd. De Méx. Casó a María Muñoz Cabeza de Vaca hija de Francisco Muñoz y de aquí nació la línea alteña.

If you look at the date and place of 8 de Julio de 1571 en Asunción, Cd. De Méx that is the exact same document you are asking about and it is actually the son of Juan González de Hermosillo and Ana Rodríguez Magdaleno and not the son of Juan González de Hermosillo c Isabel de Escobar hija del Conq. Juan de Burgos.

By the way, I edited my previous post due to an error of mentioning Isabel de Escobar and the wording needed improvement.

Armando

Also, in my post on 2011-10-04 at http://www.nuestrosranchos.com/es/node/19948 I answered Daniel that Guillermo Tovar de Teresa had the parents of Juan González de Hermosillo as Juan González de Hermosillo y Ana Rodríguez Magdaleno (o Madaleno o Ana Hernández) and that he thought that Juan González de Hermosillo was from Guadalcanal based on his post at http://www.nuestrosranchos.com/en/node/18947#comment-19622

It wasn't until Sergio's post that I understood that they were different people. In that post he says "Si Juan Glz de Hermosillo es originario de Guadacanal, segun las declaraciones en el documento, como es posible que el haya sido bautizado en Mexico DF en 1572. Creo son homologos y no la misma persona."

Which mean "If Juan Glz de Hermosillo is originally from Guadalcanal, per the declarations in the document, how is it possible that it is the same person that was baptized in 1572. I believe they are of the same name but not the same person."

Armando

Armando,

I understand now. I was a little confused. I had previously read some of
the earlier posts but wasn't quite sure who was being referred to. Also, I
erroneously assumed, that since Juan González de Hermosillo born July 8th,
1571 used the same compound surname that he must be connected to our line.

I had mentioned about some of the Hermosillos use of Ramírez and where that
might have originated from and there was a mention earlier on the
thread about Ramírez coming through Paula de Torres, but, doesn't Paula de
Torres' husband Diego Alonso del Pedroso also occasionally use Ramírez,
which would suggest it originates earlier on the Hermosillo line?

Paige

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