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Important Question?

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By abram101 - Posted on 29 October 2012

Did the Spaniard really raped the indegenous people?I was having a discussion with my aunt on this topic and she was saying that of cours the spanish raped the indegenous why do you think I'm brown she said ,and how they were just cruel and mean.So where my spanish ancestors really this?And why do mostly all the Mexican people look up to the Aztecs?
Thanks a lot if you can answer these quations

yes, that did happen(throughout history men have been known to rape women, I'm not saying that all men are guilty of this, but rape has been in existence for at least a couple thousand years). for example, hernan cortez, during his lifetime, raped both la malinche and isabel de moctezuma.

however not all mestizos were products of rape. consensual sexual relationships(regardless if the couple was married or not) between Spaniards and the indigenous people did exist though. Usually these relationships were between a Spaniard man and an indigenous women, but the gender inverse did exist too.

here's the link to a marriage record between and indigenous man and a Spaniard woman I found

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18417-59521-50?cc=1874591&wc=12512804

the mexicans look up to the aztecs because they were the most recent advanced pre-columbian civilization/empire in mexico. also not all mexicans look up to the aztecs. i personally don't care for them, but i had a teacher who was either 100% indigenous mexican or at least close to it(you can tell by looking at him), who hated the aztecs.

the irony is that before spain colonized Mexico, the aztecs were hated by the other tribes due to their cruelty.

Unfortunately rape has been part of many wars throughout human history, including the ones among different tribes before the Spaniards arrived, the Conquest of Mexico, and even wars in the 20th and 21st centuries. When the Spaniards arrived many times the local authorities would give them gifts such as gold, food, and slaves including women. So, yes, many Spaniards raped indigenous people, but chances are indigenous warriors were also doing the same to their neighbours before the Spaniards conquered them all. Many indigenous tribes were also cruel and mean to their enemies and nice to their friends and allies, even as late as the 1800’s in some places like Coahuila where I live. However, not all the blood mixing before and after the Spaniards arrived occurred through rape, there were also a lot of marriages and other kinds of consensual relations.

I doesn’t matter where in the planet you live, you may be Mexican, European, Asian, African, Middle-Eastern or whatever, chances are centuries ago, if not years or decades, some of your ancestors were killing their neighbours while others were being killed by them. There’s nothing anybody can do now about it except learning form the mistakes of the past and trying to avoid them in the present and future. Despite all the wars and violence we see in the news, this era may be the most peaceful period in human history (Google “Is human violence on the wane?”), so it seems we are making some progress.

As for why do Mexicans look up to Aztecs, it’s because they have a lot to do with our national identity. The original Aztecs were a tribe from a place named Aztlan which left their home looking for a promised land. At certain point they separated with great sorrow in two groups and one of them finally found the promise land in a small island named Mexico, inside the lake of Texcoco, and there they founded their city Mexico-Tenochtitlan. They knew they had arrived to their promised land when they found an eagle eating a serpent while standing on a nopal. When they settled there they took the name of Mexicas or Mexicans. After the conquest the city took the shortened name of Mexico and began to grow as the lake slowly disappeared under it. Then the Spaniards gave the name Mexico to a big territory within the New Spain and after the War of Independence the whole country took the name of Mexico and the inhabitants were known as Mexicans (the original name of the Aztecs in their little island). Soon the flag of the new country started showing in the center a picture of the sign the Aztecs saw in their promised land: eagle eating a serpent while standing on a nopal, even adding the island of Mexico and the water of the lake. That’s currently portrayed in our flag and seal. So, as you see, a big part of our national identity (flag, seal, name of the country, name of the people) is deeply rooted in the Aztec culture.

Best regards,

Victoriano Navarro

Your question seems to be more of a statement.
It appears you've answered your own question.

Truth be told, most of what we've heard or read on the Spaniards in Mexico is propaganda by Anglos, at first, and later the Mexican government. As with any culture, at some point in time, some did most didn't.

Looking up to the Aztecs? Only after the independence of Mexico from Spain. The new government needed a rallying point, something to differentiate themselves and the people of Mexico from Spain. Again, a propaganda tool and not really the mood or thought of the general populace, which by the way stretched from Central America to some points near Deadwood in the Dakotas. That is if you believe the old maps.

The Aztec issue was driven home again after the Revolution of 1910 and the civil war that followed. Once again, another rallying point to unite the very different cultures that make up Mexico.

After WWII, the Mexican government looked for another image to present to the rest of the world. That "new" image just happened to be us. Our food, drink, style of dress, music, unique culture, and rodeo type sports was presented to the world as "Mexico" and remained that way until the advent of Baja culture in the 1980's, which was headed by Corona Beer's parent company and the Mexican tourist industry.

This is an example of something I experience from time to time.  I receive  responses/answers to issues on nuestros ranchos when I never received the original request or comment. I was under the impression I had registered for all research, general, and announcements.  Do other members experience this?    Thanks so much,  Alice

--- On Sat, 11/17/12, jlblonde@sbcglobal.net wrote:

From: jlblonde@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 10:09 AM

Your question seems to be more of a statement.
It appears you've answered your own question.

Truth be told, most of what we've heard or read on the Spaniards in Mexico is propaganda by Anglos, at first, and later the Mexican government. As with any culture, at some point in time, some did most didn't.
Looking up to the Aztecs? Only after the independence of Mexico from Spain. The new government needed a rallying point, something to differentiate themselves and the people of Mexico from Spain. Again, a propaganda tool and not really the mood or thought of the general populace, which by the way stretched from Central America to some points near Deadwood in the Dakotas. That is if you believe the old maps.

The Aztec issue was driven home again after the Revolution of 1910 and the civil war that followed. Once again, another rallying point to unite the very different cultures that make up Mexico.
After WWII, the Mexican government looked for another image to present to the rest of the world. That "new" image just happened to be us. Our food, drink, style of dress, music, unique culture, and rodeo type sports was presented to the world as "Mexico" and remained that way until the advent of Baja culture in the 1980's, which was headed by Corona Beer's parent company and the Mexican tourist industry.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alice Blake"
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?

This is an example of something I experience from time to time. I receive
responses/answers to issues on nuestros ranchos when I never received the
original request or comment. I was under the impression I had registered for
all research, general, and announcements. Do other members experience this?
Thanks so much, Alice

--- On Sat, 11/17/12, jlblonde@sbcglobal.net wrote:

From: jlblonde@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 10:09 AM

Your question seems to be more of a statement.
It appears you've answered your own question.

Truth be told, most of what we've heard or read on the Spaniards in Mexico
is propaganda by Anglos, at first, and later the Mexican government. As with
any culture, at some point in time, some did most didn't.
Looking up to the Aztecs? Only after the independence of Mexico from Spain.
The new government needed a rallying point, something to differentiate
themselves and the people of Mexico from Spain. Again, a propaganda tool and
not really the mood or thought of the general populace, which by the way
stretched from Central America to some points near Deadwood in the Dakotas.
That is if you believe the old maps.

The Aztec issue was driven home again after the Revolution of 1910 and the
civil war that followed. Once again, another rallying point to unite the
very different cultures that make up Mexico.
After WWII, the Mexican government looked for another image to present to
the rest of the world. That "new" image just happened to be us. Our food,
drink, style of dress, music, unique culture, and rodeo type sports was
presented to the world as "Mexico" and remained that way until the advent of
Baja culture in the 1980's, which was headed by Corona Beer's parent company
and the Mexican tourist industry.

You're not alone, Alice. I didn't get the original message either. In
fact, I don't get as many emails from NR as I used to : (

Rgds,
Bill Figueroa

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alice Blake"
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?

This is an example of something I experience from time to time. I receive
responses/answers to issues on nuestros ranchos when I never received the
original request or comment. I was under the impression I had registered for
all research, general, and announcements. Do other members experience this?
Thanks so much, Alice

--- On Sat, 11/17/12, jlblonde@sbcglobal.net wrote:

From: jlblonde@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 10:09 AM

Your question seems to be more of a statement.
It appears you've answered your own question.

Truth be told, most of what we've heard or read on the Spaniards in Mexico
is propaganda by Anglos, at first, and later the Mexican government. As with
any culture, at some point in time, some did most didn't.
Looking up to the Aztecs? Only after the independence of Mexico from Spain.
The new government needed a rallying point, something to differentiate
themselves and the people of Mexico from Spain. Again, a propaganda tool and
not really the mood or thought of the general populace, which by the way
stretched from Central America to some points near Deadwood in the Dakotas.
That is if you believe the old maps.

The Aztec issue was driven home again after the Revolution of 1910 and the
civil war that followed. Once again, another rallying point to unite the
very different cultures that make up Mexico.
After WWII, the Mexican government looked for another image to present to
the rest of the world. That "new" image just happened to be us. Our food,
drink, style of dress, music, unique culture, and rodeo type sports was
presented to the world as "Mexico" and remained that way until the advent of
Baja culture in the 1980's, which was headed by Corona Beer's parent company
and the Mexican tourist industry.

Same here,

I don't know what this refers to. I very seldom receive emails from Nuestros Ranchos. Something is definitely wrong!!

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: Bill Figueroa
To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?

You're not alone, Alice.  I didn't get the original message either.  In fact, I don't get as many emails from NR as I used to : (

Rgds,
Bill Figueroa

----- Original Message ----- From: "Alice Blake"
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?

This is an example of something I experience from time to time. I receive responses/answers to issues on nuestros ranchos when I never received the original request or comment. I was under the impression I had registered for all research, general, and announcements. Do other members experience this? Thanks so much, Alice

--- On Sat, 11/17/12, jlblonde@sbcglobal.net wrote:

From: jlblonde@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 10:09 AM

Your question seems to be more of a statement.
It appears you've answered your own question.

Truth be told, most of what we've heard or read on the Spaniards in Mexico is propaganda by Anglos, at first, and later the Mexican government. As with any culture, at some point in time, some did most didn't.
Looking up to the Aztecs? Only after the independence of Mexico from Spain. The new government needed a rallying point, something to differentiate themselves and the people of Mexico from Spain. Again, a propaganda tool and not really the mood or thought of the general populace, which by the way stretched from Central America to some points near Deadwood in the Dakotas. That is if you believe the old maps.

The Aztec issue was driven home again after the Revolution of 1910 and the civil war that followed. Once again, another rallying point to unite the very different cultures that make up Mexico.
After WWII, the Mexican government looked for another image to present to the rest of the world. That "new" image just happened to be us. Our food, drink, style of dress, music, unique culture, and rodeo type sports was presented to the world as "Mexico" and remained that way until the advent of Baja culture in the 1980's, which was headed by Corona Beer's parent company and the Mexican tourist industry.

So, it's not just me.  Overall I also receive much fewer emails from Nuestros Ranchos.  I guess I don't understand who receives which emails.  Thanks for your responses.   Alice 

--- On Sat, 11/17/12, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

From: Alicia Carrillo
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?
To: "research@NuestrosRanchos.com"
Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 6:19 PM

Same here,

I don't know what this refers to. I very seldom receive emails from Nuestros Ranchos. Something is definitely wrong!!

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: Bill Figueroa
To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?

You're not alone, Alice.  I didn't get the original message either.  In fact, I don't get as many emails from NR as I used to : (

Rgds,
Bill Figueroa

----- Original Message ----- From: "Alice Blake"
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?

This is an example of something I experience from time to time. I receive responses/answers to issues on nuestros ranchos when I never received the original request or comment. I was under the impression I had registered for all research, general, and announcements. Do other members experience this? Thanks so much, Alice

--- On Sat, 11/17/12, jlblonde@sbcglobal.net wrote:

From: jlblonde@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 10:09 AM

Your question seems to be more of a statement.
It appears you've answered your own question.

Truth be told, most of what we've heard or read on the Spaniards in Mexico is propaganda by Anglos, at first, and later the Mexican government. As with any culture, at some point in time, some did most didn't.
Looking up to the Aztecs? Only after the independence of Mexico from Spain. The new government needed a rallying point, something to differentiate themselves and the people of Mexico from Spain. Again, a propaganda tool and not really the mood or thought of the general populace, which by the way stretched from Central America to some points near Deadwood in the Dakotas. That is if you believe the old maps.

The Aztec issue was driven home again after the Revolution of 1910 and the civil war that followed. Once again, another rallying point to unite the very different cultures that make up Mexico.
After WWII, the Mexican government looked for another image to present to the rest of the world. That "new" image just happened to be us. Our food, drink, style of dress, music, unique culture, and rodeo type sports was presented to the world as "Mexico" and remained that way until the advent of Baja culture in the 1980's, which was headed by Corona Beer's parent company and the Mexican tourist industry.

You are right, something is off. I wrote Joseph 10/30 after I wasn't
getting any for a few days. They started coming again, but not all. I've
been looking on the website more, to check what I'm missing.
Raquel

Thanks, Raquel.  Some of us would like to know what you find out.  Alice  

--- On Sat, 11/17/12, Raquel Ruiz wrote:

From: Raquel Ruiz
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Important Question?
To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 7:26 PM

You are right, something is off.  I wrote Joseph 10/30 after I wasn't
getting any for a few days. They started coming again, but not all.  I've
been looking on the website more, to check what I'm missing.
Raquel

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