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A little help verifying a record.

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By dpdelgadol - Posted on 26 September 2012

Juanita,
I hope the following is helpful to you.

En el año del Señor de mil ochocientos ochenta y nueve a veintie de Octubre en la iglesia parroquial de Mesquitic yo el Presbitero Dn. Jesús Ma. Colunga Cura parroco de esta jurisdiccion
bauticé solemnemente, puse Oleo y Crisma a un infante de nueve dias de nacido a quien puse por nombre Pilar h. l. [hija legítima] de Pedro Baldes y de Maliana [Matiana] Sandate vecinos de San
Pedro fue su madrina Florenlina [Florentina] Valdes a quienes advertí su obligación y parentesco espiritual. Y para que conste, lo firmé con el señor Cura.

In the year of the Lord one thousand eight hundred eighty and nine on 20 October in the parish church of Mesquitic I the Priest Don Jesus Maria Colunga pastor of this district solemnly baptized
and administered Oil and Chrism to an infant born nine days ago whom I named Pilar legitimate daughter of Pedro Baldes and of Matiana Sandate residents of San Pedro her godmother was
Florentina Valdes whom I advised of her spiritual obligation and relationship. In order to be registered, I signed it with the Pastor.
[note: Even though the names of the women are written with an "l", I used the standard spelling with a "t". There are also many other writing errors.]

David in Albany CA

On Wed 26/09/12 6:31 PM , juanitahenniger@msn.com sent:
> I need a little reading a baptismal record that I found. 'm looking for
> information on my great grandfather (Pilar Valdez) and my great grandmother
> (Romana Tovar) who moved from Mexico to Texas in 1912 with their two
> daughters (Elisa and Herlinda. Any ways I found the following record and
> I'm having a little trouble reading the names. I would appreciate any help
> confirming what I believe is my great grandfather's baptismal record.
> I think the name of the child is Pilar Baldes (I'm making the assumption
> that the name is mispelled or at least I'm hoping. My great great
> grandparents were Pedro Valdez and Matina Sandate. Would someone be kind
> enough to help me translate the record. Thank you.
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20420-25423-54?cc
> =1860864&wc=11680485

David,

Thank you for the translation. I'm disappointed that this seems to refer to Pilar as a female. Is it possible that Pilar is male? :) I thought I was so on point. My Great Grandfather Pilar's birthday was October 11, 1889 (a one day difference) and considering I seems they share the same parental names. Do you think that considering all the writing errors in this document that it could be my great grandfather? Thank you for taking the time to look over this record for me. Juanita Henniger

Juanita,

The phrase "un infante de nueve dias nacido" definitely refers to a male child. I unthinkingly assumed that Pilar refers to a female. I also made the mistake of assuming that a "madrina" meant
that a female child was involved. I agree with you that this record of Pilar's baptism refers to a boy. Sorry.

David in Albany, CA

On Thu 27/09/12 8:44 PM , juanitahenniger@msn.com sent:
> David,
>
> Thank you for the translation. I'm disappointed that this seems to refer
> to Pilar as a female. Is it possible that Pilar is male? :) I thought I was
> so on point. My Great Grandfather Pilar's birthday was October 11, 1889 (a
> one day difference) and considering I seems they share the same parental
> names. Do you think that considering all the writing errors in this
> document that it could be my great grandfather? Thank you for taking the
> time to look over this record for me. Juanita Henniger-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
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No David do not apologize. I appreciate all the help. I have 3 years of high school Spanish and that was 30 years ago. Unfortunately, I have seldom had taken the opportunity to keep up my skills. So I find myself struggling to understand the documents. And then add the horrible handwriting and the different script styles and the abbreviations all this at times wants me to pull my hair. So, people like you giving of your time to help is so much appreciated.

Could I impose on you once more? From the marriage license I assumed Pedro's father was Fulgencio, but the baptismal record says Flortina or Flortino would in your experience a name be spelled so different?

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20473-6640-16?cc=1860864&wc=11680872

Thank you again,

Juanita Henniger

Juanita,

I see no reasonable similarity in sound or spelling between 'Flortina/o' and 'Fulgncio'. There's always a margin for discrepancies in baptismal documents. Remember that the
parents were not always present at the baptism. Information was provided by the godparents. Also the name could have been heard inaccurately, etc. The marriage record
you included clearly shows 'Fulgencio' as the name. Unable to provide much more help than to say it's an imperfect science.

David in Albany, CA

On Fri 28/09/12 4:31 PM , juanitahenniger@msn.com sent:
> No David do not apologize. I appreciate all the help. I have 3 years of
> high school Spanish and that was 30 years ago. Unfortunately, I have
> seldom had taken the opportunity to keep up my skills. So I find myself
> struggling to understand the documents. And then add the horrible
> handwriting and the different script styles and the abbreviations all this
> at times wants me to pull my hair. So, people like you giving of your time
> to help is so much appreciated.
> Could I impose on you once more? From the marriage license I assumed
> Pedro's father was Fulgencio, but the baptismal record says Flortina or
> Flortino would in your experience a name be spelled so different?
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20473-6640-16?cc=
> 1860864&wc=11680872
> Thank you again,
>
> Juanita Henniger

Pedro was baptized as Pedro Celestino Valdez Hernandez on 30 May 1850. He
was the son of Fulgencio Valdez and Cecilia Hernandez.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JM4V-R68

The marriage document also mentions Pedro as the son of Fulgencio Valdez
and Cecilia Hernandez.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20420-25423-54?cc=1860864&wc=11680485

Florentina was probably a sister of Pedro since she was the godmother of
Pilar.

Regards,
Armando

Thank you David. I've been trying to wrap this marriage license around the dates. The marriage was in 1877 and Pilar was born in 1889, his brother was born in 1902 both of them had the same maderina both say that Pedro was from San Pedro. I will have to research the area. But the marriage date bothers me and gives me lots of questions. Did they not have children for 12 years? Did they move? Are the twin girls I found in Neustra Senora del la Asuncion who were born in 1902 with parents listed as Pedro Valdez and Matena Sandate part of the family or is this another set of parents and no relations. The big question is what happened between 1877 and 1889 and can i find another marriage license for these children who were born from 1889-1902. Lol, so it's back to drawing board for me. Thank you again David. I appreciate all you've done.

Juanita Henniger

Pedro Valdez and Matiana Sandate probably had lots of children between 1877
and 1889 but the records are probably missing for those years which makes
it seem they didn't have children for that time period.

Regards,
Armando

Thank you Armando,

I wondered if Florentina might have been an unmarried sister of Pedro. I'm going to keep searching and hopefully I find Florentina. Thank you again. I do appreciate it.

Lol, the thought did come to my mind that Pedro and Matina might have had a child for every year they were married since birth control was not practiced. But like I said I did find a set of twins in another parish whose parents were Pedro and Matina. Twins do run in the family. I also found where Fulgencio and Cecila had a set of twins Flipa and Santiago ;)so those little girls are looking like they could be part of the family tree.

Thank you for your help and suggestions. It helps tremendously to bounce off ideas and thoughts with other people.

Juanita Henniger

Thank you. Looks like you must reply to all posts. :)

Juanita Henniger

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