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Mande usted---Announce Digest, Vol 76, Issue 1

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By mimasep1959 - Posted on 02 July 2012

ANNOUNCE DIGEST
****************************************
I was raised to say Mande Usted whenever my parents or elders called me. It was a sign of respect, but also good breeding (bien criado) per my mother. She would get disgusted whenever she would hear my cousins (who were also raised in the US) say "Que?" To respond, "Que" was considered rude and low class unless you were speaking to another kid.
After taking countless Spanish classes in the US, I learned to say, "como?" but always reserved the Mande Usted for my elders. "Diga" somehow sounded a bit rude and condescending to me. It's almost like you're telling folks to spit it out and say what you want. My parents would never say this even to me as their child.
I guess it varies from culture to culture. My parents are/were from Los Altos de Jalisco. I find that we're a bit more stuffy than other folks from the rest of Mexico and Latin America. I learned of other examples as I began to learn Spanish as a second language.
In present day Mexico, I don't think it has anything to do with nobility or social status. I still hear my cousins in Mexico use this term even with me when we're the same age.

My cinco centavos.
Irma GomezGtz---- N. California

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 15:39:45 -0700
From: Emilie Garcia
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Roy Rodriguez, Jr.
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Roy,

You mentioned differences in usage of words in Spain vs Mexico in addressing people.

There is one other thing that I was aware of growing up with a Native American mother from New Mexico and a Basque-mestizo-mulato father from Zacatecas. He would scold us if we said, "Que?". He insisted we say "mande usted", but my mother refused to do that. She would say "nadie me manda". She would say "como?" or "que?". I noticed in Spain they don't use that term, "mande", and since the New Mexico "manitos" used an old Spanish dialect and were isolated for so long from the centers in Mexico, if that is the reason.

In our Spanish class in school, we learned to say "Como?" or "perdon?", not "Mande", and I noticed in Spain they used the term "Como?" or "diga?".

I also had a maid that insisted on calling me Dona Emilia when I told her to call me Emilia. She could have called me "senora". I felt uncomfortable with the "dona", but then I wondered if she was being sarcastic.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 14:45:38 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: announce@nuestrosranchos.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Roy Rodriguez, Jr.
>
> Hello Raquel,
>
> The use for older people regardless of economic or social status seems to
> have begun in the 20th century in Mexico. It is actually used sparingly in
> Spain, so yes in the 20th century it became more egalitarian in Mexico
> than in Spain. Prior to the 20th century it used more often but only for
> certain classes of people in Spain. The use for non-nobles is ambiguous in
> Mexico but it's use in Nueva Galicia was used mainly for people of high
> regard.
>
> Saludos,
> Armando
>
------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 00:55:23 +0000
From: Lester Alvarado
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mande usted Vs como
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Emile and Roy,

In my house growing up in East L. A. mom would always make us respond to her with ?Mande usted ?she would get furious with us if we didnt . She would say it was a form of respect . I have several good friends from Colombia and from other South American countries that tell me that they never use that phrase and the reason Mexicans use it, is because of the domination of the spanish people .
I dont know if thats true or not but thats what they tell me . Anyone else have any ideas ?

Welester G. Alvarado Carrillo

>
> Roy,
>
> You mentioned differences in usage of words in Spain vs Mexico in addressing people.
>
> There is one other thing that I was aware of growing up with a Native American mother from New Mexico and a Basque-mestizo-mulato father from Zacatecas. He would scold us if we said, "Que?". He insisted we say "mande usted", but my mother refused to do that. She would say "nadie me manda". She would say "como?" or "que?". I noticed in Spain they don't use that term, "mande", and since the New Mexico "manitos" used an old Spanish dialect and were isolated for so long from the centers in Mexico, if that is the reason.
>
> In our Spanish class in school, we learned to say "Como?" or "perdon?", not "Mande", and I noticed in Spain they used the term "Como?" or "diga?".
>
> I also had a maid that insisted on calling me Dona Emilia when I told her to call me Emilia. She could have called me "senora". I felt uncomfortable with the "dona", but then I wondered if she was being sarcastic.
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 14:45:38 -0500
> > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > To: announce@nuestrosranchos.com
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Roy Rodriguez, Jr.
> >
> > Hello Raquel,
> >
> > The use for older people regardless of economic or social status seems to
> > have begun in the 20th century in Mexico. It is actually used sparingly in
> > Spain, so yes in the 20th century it became more egalitarian in Mexico
> > than in Spain. Prior to the 20th century it used more often but only for
> > certain classes of people in Spain. The use for non-nobles is ambiguous in
> > Mexico but it's use in Nueva Galicia was used mainly for people of high
> > regard.
> >
> > Saludos,
> > Armando
> >
> >

As a mexican living in México I can tell you that I always use ¿QUE? and my
parents never correct me, but I had a friend in the school that always told
me, "no se dice que?, se dice "mande".

But the one we NEVER USE, I had never heard it is ¿como? as and answer
when someone call you

Patricia Haro

On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Gomezlucero, Irma wrote:

>
> ANNOUNCE DIGEST
> ****************************************
> I was raised to say Mande Usted whenever my parents or elders called me.
> It was a sign of respect, but also good breeding (bien criado) per my
> mother. She would get disgusted whenever she would hear my cousins (who
> were also raised in the US) say "Que?" To respond, "Que" was considered
> rude and low class unless you were speaking to another kid.
> After taking countless Spanish classes in the US, I learned to say,
> "como?" but always reserved the Mande Usted for my elders. "Diga" somehow
> sounded a bit rude and condescending to me. It's almost like you're
> telling folks to spit it out and say what you want. My parents would never
> say this even to me as their child.
> I guess it varies from culture to culture. My parents are/were from Los
> Altos de Jalisco. I find that we're a bit more stuffy than other folks
> from the rest of Mexico and Latin America. I learned of other examples as
> I began to learn Spanish as a second language.
> In present day Mexico, I don't think it has anything to do with nobility
> or social status. I still hear my cousins in Mexico use this term even
> with me when we're the same age.
>
> My cinco centavos.
> Irma GomezGtz---- N. California
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 15:39:45 -0700
> From: Emilie Garcia
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Roy Rodriguez, Jr.
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Roy,
>
> You mentioned differences in usage of words in Spain vs Mexico in
> addressing people.
>
> There is one other thing that I was aware of growing up with a Native
> American mother from New Mexico and a Basque-mestizo-mulato father from
> Zacatecas. He would scold us if we said, "Que?". He insisted we say
> "mande usted", but my mother refused to do that. She would say "nadie me
> manda". She would say "como?" or "que?". I noticed in Spain they don't
> use that term, "mande", and since the New Mexico "manitos" used an old
> Spanish dialect and were isolated for so long from the centers in Mexico,
> if that is the reason.
>
> In our Spanish class in school, we learned to say "Como?" or "perdon?",
> not "Mande", and I noticed in Spain they used the term "Como?" or "diga?".
>
> I also had a maid that insisted on calling me Dona Emilia when I told her
> to call me Emilia. She could have called me "senora". I felt
> uncomfortable with the "dona", but then I wondered if she was being
> sarcastic.
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 14:45:38 -0500
> > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > To: announce@nuestrosranchos.com
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Roy Rodriguez, Jr.
> >
> > Hello Raquel,
> >
> > The use for older people regardless of economic or social status seems to
> > have begun in the 20th century in Mexico. It is actually used sparingly
> in
> > Spain, so yes in the 20th century it became more egalitarian in Mexico
> > than in Spain. Prior to the 20th century it used more often but only for
> > certain classes of people in Spain. The use for non-nobles is ambiguous
> in
> > Mexico but it's use in Nueva Galicia was used mainly for people of high
> > regard.
> >
> > Saludos,
> > Armando
> >
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 00:55:23 +0000
> From: Lester Alvarado
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mande usted Vs como
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Hi Emile and Roy,
>
> In my house growing up in East L. A. mom would always make us respond to
> her with ?Mande usted ?she would get furious with us if we didnt . She
> would say it was a form of respect . I have several good friends from
> Colombia and from other South American countries that tell me that they
> never use that phrase and the reason Mexicans use it, is because of the
> domination of the spanish people .
> I dont know if thats true or not but thats what they tell me . Anyone else
> have any ideas ?
>
> Welester G. Alvarado Carrillo
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Roy,
> >
> > You mentioned differences in usage of words in Spain vs Mexico in
> addressing people.
> >
> > There is one other thing that I was aware of growing up with a Native
> American mother from New Mexico and a Basque-mestizo-mulato father from
> Zacatecas. He would scold us if we said, "Que?". He insisted we say "mande
> usted", but my mother refused to do that. She would say "nadie me manda".
> She would say "como?" or "que?". I noticed in Spain they don't use that
> term, "mande", and since the New Mexico "manitos" used an old Spanish
> dialect and were isolated for so long from the centers in Mexico, if that
> is the reason.
> >
> > In our Spanish class in school, we learned to say "Como?" or "perdon?",
> not "Mande", and I noticed in Spain they used the term "Como?" or "diga?".
> >
> > I also had a maid that insisted on calling me Dona Emilia when I told
> her to call me Emilia. She could have called me "senora". I felt
> uncomfortable with the "dona", but then I wondered if she was being
> sarcastic.
> >
> > Emilie
> > Port Orchard, WA
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > > Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 14:45:38 -0500
> > > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > > To: announce@nuestrosranchos.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Roy Rodriguez, Jr.
> > >
> > > Hello Raquel,
> > >
> > > The use for older people regardless of economic or social status seems
> to
> > > have begun in the 20th century in Mexico. It is actually used
> sparingly in
> > > Spain, so yes in the 20th century it became more egalitarian in Mexico
> > > than in Spain. Prior to the 20th century it used more often but only
> for
> > > certain classes of people in Spain. The use for non-nobles is
> ambiguous in
> > > Mexico but it's use in Nueva Galicia was used mainly for people of high
> > > regard.
> > >
> > > Saludos,
> > > Armando
> > >
> > >
>
>

My family is mainly from Zacatecas and I grew up saying mande, not que or como because it was considered kinda low class. Suena feo, you know?

As a teacher, I deal with lots of Mexican parents, mostly from Michoacan, and if I remember correctly, they say mande as well.

Laura Gonzalez

You got me thinking, I think the proper answer when someone call your name
is "dime" or "digame".

Que? is kind of rude, and "Mande" is diminishing, so I recall how my
mother (She was very proper, a real LADY) answer an "Dime" o "Si, dime " or
a "digame usted" depending on the occassion but never como?

And I repeat again I am mexican living in Mexico City thats the way we use
it.

I hope you find this info useful.

Patricia Haro

On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 5:46 PM, wrote:

> My family is mainly from Zacatecas and I grew up saying mande, not que or
> como because it was considered kinda low class. Suena feo, you know?
>
> As a teacher, I deal with lots of Mexican parents, mostly from Michoacan,
> and if I remember correctly, they say mande as well.
>
> Laura Gonzalez

Is your family from Valle de Gpe Jalisco
Rick.
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 2, 2012, at 10:42 AM, "Gomezlucero, Irma" wrote:

>
> ANNOUNCE DIGEST
> ****************************************
> I was raised to say Mande Usted whenever my parents or elders called me. It was a sign of respect, but also good breeding (bien criado) per my mother. She would get disgusted whenever she would hear my cousins (who were also raised in the US) say "Que?" To respond, "Que" was considered rude and low class unless you were speaking to another kid.
> After taking countless Spanish classes in the US, I learned to say, "como?" but always reserved the Mande Usted for my elders. "Diga" somehow sounded a bit rude and condescending to me. It's almost like you're telling folks to spit it out and say what you want. My parents would never say this even to me as their child.
> I guess it varies from culture to culture. My parents are/were from Los Altos de Jalisco. I find that we're a bit more stuffy than other folks from the rest of Mexico and Latin America. I learned of other examples as I began to learn Spanish as a second language.
> In present day Mexico, I don't think it has anything to do with nobility or social status. I still hear my cousins in Mexico use this term even with me when we're the same age.
>
> My cinco centavos.
> Irma GomezGtz---- N. California
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 15:39:45 -0700
> From: Emilie Garcia
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Roy Rodriguez, Jr.
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Roy,
>
> You mentioned differences in usage of words in Spain vs Mexico in addressing people.
>
> There is one other thing that I was aware of growing up with a Native American mother from New Mexico and a Basque-mestizo-mulato father from Zacatecas. He would scold us if we said, "Que?". He insisted we say "mande usted", but my mother refused to do that. She would say "nadie me manda". She would say "como?" or "que?". I noticed in Spain they don't use that term, "mande", and since the New Mexico "manitos" used an old Spanish dialect and were isolated for so long from the centers in Mexico, if that is the reason.
>
> In our Spanish class in school, we learned to say "Como?" or "perdon?", not "Mande", and I noticed in Spain they used the term "Como?" or "diga?".
>
> I also had a maid that insisted on calling me Dona Emilia when I told her to call me Emilia. She could have called me "senora". I felt uncomfortable with the "dona", but then I wondered if she was being sarcastic.
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>> Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 14:45:38 -0500
>> From: fandemma@gmail.com
>> To: announce@nuestrosranchos.com
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Roy Rodriguez, Jr.
>>
>> Hello Raquel,
>>
>> The use for older people regardless of economic or social status seems to
>> have begun in the 20th century in Mexico. It is actually used sparingly in
>> Spain, so yes in the 20th century it became more egalitarian in Mexico
>> than in Spain. Prior to the 20th century it used more often but only for
>> certain classes of people in Spain. The use for non-nobles is ambiguous in
>> Mexico but it's use in Nueva Galicia was used mainly for people of high
>> regard.
>>
>> Saludos,
>> Armando
>>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 00:55:23 +0000
> From: Lester Alvarado
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mande usted Vs como
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Hi Emile and Roy,
>
> In my house growing up in East L. A. mom would always make us respond to her with ?Mande usted ?she would get furious with us if we didnt . She would say it was a form of respect . I have several good friends from Colombia and from other South American countries that tell me that they never use that phrase and the reason Mexicans use it, is because of the domination of the spanish people .
> I dont know if thats true or not but thats what they tell me . Anyone else have any ideas ?
>
> Welester G. Alvarado Carrillo
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Roy,
>>
>> You mentioned differences in usage of words in Spain vs Mexico in addressing people.
>>
>> There is one other thing that I was aware of growing up with a Native American mother from New Mexico and a Basque-mestizo-mulato father from Zacatecas. He would scold us if we said, "Que?". He insisted we say "mande usted", but my mother refused to do that. She would say "nadie me manda". She would say "como?" or "que?". I noticed in Spain they don't use that term, "mande", and since the New Mexico "manitos" used an old Spanish dialect and were isolated for so long from the centers in Mexico, if that is the reason.
>>
>> In our Spanish class in school, we learned to say "Como?" or "perdon?", not "Mande", and I noticed in Spain they used the term "Como?" or "diga?".
>>
>> I also had a maid that insisted on calling me Dona Emilia when I told her to call me Emilia. She could have called me "senora". I felt uncomfortable with the "dona", but then I wondered if she was being sarcastic.
>>
>> Emilie
>> Port Orchard, WA
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>> Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 14:45:38 -0500
>>> From: fandemma@gmail.com
>>> To: announce@nuestrosranchos.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Roy Rodriguez, Jr.
>>>
>>> Hello Raquel,
>>>
>>> The use for older people regardless of economic or social status seems to
>>> have begun in the 20th century in Mexico. It is actually used sparingly in
>>> Spain, so yes in the 20th century it became more egalitarian in Mexico
>>> than in Spain. Prior to the 20th century it used more often but only for
>>> certain classes of people in Spain. The use for non-nobles is ambiguous in
>>> Mexico but it's use in Nueva Galicia was used mainly for people of high
>>> regard.
>>>
>>> Saludos,
>>> Armando
>>>
>>>
>
>

No sé si ya se fijaron, pero como parece que todos hablamos español, voy a opinar esta vez en español que me sale mucho mejor.

Yo soy de los altos de Jalisco, y les platico mi experiencia:

A mí no me enseñaron a decir mande, supongo que de por aquí ha de ser como 50/50, y sí, muchos niños te corrigen cuando eres niño con "no se dice qué, se dice mande"

En estos lugares usar el usted, Don, o mande, significa respeto, pero además una cierta distancia, es un reconocimiento de que no somos iguales. Por edad, por dinero, por autoridad o por simple falta de confianza con alguien.

Algo normal (no regla) es que comiences tratando a alguien como "usted", y si se da cierto nivel de confianza o amistad, se pide que se hablen de tú (tutearse).

El responder "qué" cuando te llaman, puede sonar grosero, aunque se puede contestar qué, sólo que hay que tener cuidado con el tono al momento de responder.

Yo tengo la idea de que el mande usted tiene algo de sumisión, y no se debe de responder así de automático a menos de que sea que alguien se ganó ese trato. Yo prefiero responder, sobre todo con mis clientes o mi patrón: ¿qué pasó? ¿qué se ofrece? dígame. El Don se lo reservo a la gente de cierta edad y actitud respetable.

Como nota curiosa, un patrón puede hablarle de usted a sus empleados, un maestro puede hablarle de usted a sus alumnos, un papá puede hablarle de usted a sus hijos. Hasta se le habla de usted a un perro cuando se le regaña (¡ándele, bájese de la cama!). Es una forma de marcar distancia y seriedad al momento de tratar con alguien o algo.

Luis Arturo Huerta Rodríguez

I enjoyed reading all the comments re the phrase, "Mande ud?" but thought Luis Arturo Huerta's answer was best at explaining how my cousins and I, all born and raised in California, were taught.

In fact, a short memoir piece of mine, recently printed in the June 2012 issue of the online Latino magazine "Somos en escrito," begins with this same expression. To check it out, log onto http:somosenescrito.blogspot.com, and scroll down to "My Soldier." I hope you find it worth reading.

Gloria Delgado

Luis,

Me dio risa leer tu respuesta. Siempre me recuerdo de mi abuelita hablando de usted a los gatos. Me dijo que era un mexicanismo hablar así.

Laura Gonzalez

Yo vivo en Tepatitlán y puedo decir que el decir MANDE es una costumbre que se ha ido perdiendo con el paso del tiempo, sobre todo en la ciudad. Yo aún le hablo de MANDE a mis papás, por el respeto que merecen, lo mismo con mis abuelos.
Digo que se ha ido perdiendo sobre todo en las ciudades, porque a todos mis amigos se les hace un poco raro cuando me escuchan hablarles de usted a mis papás y sobre todo cuando me llaman y les contesto de MANDE, hasta para contestarles por teléfono les digo MANDE.
También puedo decir, que en la universidad una profesora de Contabilidad que estudió un tiempo en España nos contó que cuando estuvo en España ella también les hablaba de mande a sus profesores y que todos se quedaban asustados, porque en España el decir mande significaba estar a su disposición para cualquier cuestión.
Pero en si, yo amo decir MANDE a mis padres, porque siento que es una forma de demostrar el respeto que tengo hacia ellos.

Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.

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