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Any info on Ambrosio De Armas or Quiteria De Velasco??

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By abram101 - Posted on 11 March 2012

Does anyone have any info on both of these individuals i'm trying to find their parents they are both from Nochistlan Zacatecas Mexico.I descend from their child Juan Jose De Armas.

Have you looked at all of the baptisms and marriages of all of the Armas in
Zacatecas? Sometimes there can be clues found in those records. You should
also try looking page by page through the volumes of Información
Matrimonial to find clues. Those records aren't indexed. You might find
info on Ambrosio de Armas and Quiteria de Velasco in there.

Here are two baptisms you should look for the written records on -
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NVQ8-VQT
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NVQZ-18G

Armando

On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 12:37 AM, wrote:

> Does anyone have any info on both of these individuals i'm trying to find
> their parents they are both from Nochistlan Zacatecas Mexico.I descend from
> their child Juan Jose De Armas.

Armando,

I have not found their marriage record yet.The only info i have from them is their duaghter Francisca baptism record.im really not that sure about that second link their? but thats about it.iv'e tried looking so hard for any more info on them but nothing.

Abram

Hi Abram,

I think you've been searching for them on family search only by typing the exacts names you have. You have to be aware that sometimes the surnames of both parents are not mentioned in the records. Also sometimes, the surname or names can change to one similar but not the same such as Velasco for Velasquez, as one of these records I'm passing to you do. Here's what I've found.

José Francisco A. Alvares parents listed as Juan Manuel A. and Jacinta Quiteria Albares.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N1PV-T5S

Simon Antonio, parents listed as Juan Ambrosio and Quiteria Velasques
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NVQ8-ZHL

Juan José Fermin, parents listed as Juan Ambrosio and Quiteria de Olaya
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N8QV-WSZ

José María, parents listed as Juan Ambrosio and María Quiteria
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NVQD-C7P

María Francisca parents listed as Juan Ambrosio de Armas and Quiteria de Velasco
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NVQ8-VQT

In my opinion all these children are from the same couple, this changes of names do happen. I advise you to try to do the same thing with the marriage. Just try to put on the range of years correctly, the place and only one of the couples names like "Ambrosio" or "Quiteria" without the surname. You'll have a great amount of couples but you need to check for them to see if the surname is wrong written or translated and that's the reason you don't find it.

Good luck, hope this helps you.
Enrique Agraz

Abram,

Don't give up and keep trying. After 9 long years of searching, I finally found my father in-laws birth record. Everyone always said he was born in 1901 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas. I exhausted the search for the films of 1901, there's about half a year missing.

Today I found his birth record, he was born in 1902 in La Cienega, Nochistlan Zacatecas. I thought I'd never find it and that it was missing from the 1901 records. When he was alive, he had a surrogate birth record made in Nochistlan to which several people had to attest that they knew him and his parents and knew he was from Nochistlan and from the year 1901. He was born the 9th of January 1902 and baptized the 25th of January of the same year. Antonio Carrillo, son of Francisco Carrillo and Mariana Jauregui.

So you see, it's not always easy, you have to keep at it and not give up.

Alicia

________________________________
From: "aflore2855@gmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:36 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Any info on Ambrosio De Armas or Quiteria De Velasco??

Armando,

I have not found their marriage record yet.The only info i have from them is their duaghter Francisca baptism record.im really not that sure about that second link their? but thats about it.iv'e tried looking so hard for any more info on them but nothing.

Abram,

You still have a lot to learn about genealogical research. I never asked
you if you have found or looked at the marriage record. I was asking if you
have looked at the marriage records for other people with the surname
Armas, those records can sometimes provide clues, as can baptisms for other
people with the surname Armas.

I was hoping you were going to understand what Enrique Agraz pointed out,
especially since you have seen this with other families. The surnames won't
always be spelled the same and can sometimes be transcribed incorrectly.
Remember Alba and Albarez? That should have been a clue to you for future
investigations.

The second link I had given you mentions the parents as Juan Antonio de
Armas and Quiteria Velasquez but that could be due to a bad transcription.
The names and links that Enrique provided make it even more believable.
They likely transcribed Ambrosio incorrectly as Antonio. Take note of the
godparents of all of the baptisms. Sometimes the granparents are padrinos.
Other times they can be aunts, uncles, or cousins.

After you have done that don't forget to go through the volumes of
Información Matrimonial.

Armando

On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 7:36 PM, wrote:

>
>
> Armando,
>
> I have not found their marriage record yet.The only info i have from them
> is their duaghter Francisca baptism record.im really not that sure about
> that second link their? but thats about it.iv'e tried looking so hard for
> any more info on them but nothing.
>

Salvador

I really don't agree on most of these individuals being duaghters and sons of Juan Ambrosio De Armas and Quiteria De Velasco.And the reason why is becuase the last names and some of the first names of the parent are really different.The only one i do agree on is the Francisca being the duaghter of Juan and Quiteria but the rest nope not feeling it.

Abram

Alicia

Thank you very much for the encouragement i will never give up.

Abram

Armando,

Like i said im only 15 im bearly getting how this genealogy stuff works i can't expect to learn all of this wonderful and interesting things in about 4 months no it needs time.Thanks a lot i have not thought of that looking through the padrinos names and seeing if their is any connections if they are parents cousins ect.

I had a question why are all the individuals i come across say espanoles doesn't that mean spanish??

Alicia,
 
I guess this well-worth advice can apply to me and my search of the Corvera/Corbera lineage.
 
Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alicia Carrillo"
To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:18:44 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Never giving up!

Abram,

Don't give up and keep trying. After 9 long years of searching, I finally found my father in-laws birth record. Everyone always said he was born in 1901 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas. I exhausted the search for the films of 1901, there's about half a year missing.

Today I found his birth record, he was born in 1902 in La Cienega, Nochistlan Zacatecas. I thought I'd never find it and that it was missing from the 1901 records. When he was alive, he had a surrogate birth record made in Nochistlan to which several people had to attest that they knew him and his parents and knew he was from Nochistlan and from the year 1901. He was born the 9th of January 1902 and baptized the 25th of January of the same year. Antonio Carrillo, son of Francisco Carrillo and Mariana Jauregui.

So you see, it's not always easy, you have to keep at it and not give up.

Alicia

________________________________
 From: "aflore2855@gmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:36 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Any info on Ambrosio De Armas or Quiteria De Velasco??
 

Armando,

I have not found their marriage record yet.The only info i have from them is their duaghter Francisca baptism record.im really not that sure about that second link their? but thats about it.iv'e tried looking so hard for any more info on them but nothing.

Abram,

Actually, you can learn most of it in a short amount of time. What you need
to do is listen. It seems many things said to you in the past went ignored
or in one ear and out the other. An example being both Enrique and I
told you to look at certain baptisms and you said you are not feeling it.
This is not about a gut feeling. It is about reading original records to
arrive at logical conclusions. It is also listening and doing what has been
suggested to you by people that have been doing research for a long time
and have seen first hand what has to be done to try to get past brick
walls. Just because I say "can" does not mean "will" but there is no way to
know until you try. After you have finished all of the baptisms, marriages,
and informacion matimonial volumes you can then start to look through the
dispensas.

Yes, the term español means spanish. In other words they are of Spanish
ancestry. They could be at times actually be mestizo or castizo and be
called español. There is no telling how many generations they had been in
Mexico if that is what you are trying to figure out. The only way to be
sure they were born in Spain is by finding a document stating they were
born in los Reinos de Castilla. Sometimes they are referred to as
peninsulares for having been born the in the Iberian Peninsula. However, I
have never seen the term peninsular in a sacramental document. The later
peninsulares would not allow criollos, Spaniards born in Nueva España, to
hold certain offices so they led the revolt causing the Independence of
Mexico. Some of these criollos were Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla, Pedro
Moreno, and Francisco Primo de Verdad y Ramos. The first two were my
distant relatives. The first considered Padre de la Patria fought for equal
rights of all of the people in the caste system and the elimination of
slavery 50 years before the Civil War or the Emancipation Proclamation of
the U.S.

You should have now learned about matrimonios, bautismos, velaciones,
información matrimonial, dispensas, errors in transcription, use of
different surnames based to honor the grandmother or greatgrandmother,
spanish words used in those documents, etc.

If you get stuck on some terms you can look them up here
http://www.somosprimos.com/spanishterms/spanishterms.htm

Hopefull all of this helps you grow as a person since some of it can be
carried over in real life such listening to people with experience and
using logical deduction.

Saludos,
Armando

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 3:19 AM, wrote:

>
>
> Armando,
>
> Like i said im only 15 im bearly getting how this genealogy stuff works i
> can't expect to learn all of this wonderful and interesting things in about
> 4 months no it needs time.Thanks a lot i have not thought of that looking
> through the padrinos names and seeing if their is any connections if they
> are parents cousins ect.
>
> I had a question why are all the individuals i come across say espanoles
> doesn't that mean spanish??
>

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