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Nicolas Ballin Petrona Ramires

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By abram101 - Posted on 19 February 2012

Does any one have any info on both of these individuals.The only info that i have from them both from Nochistlan Zacatecas Mexico, And i have their son birth record Juan Ballin Ramires.Please anyone who has info.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15087-19061-21?cc=1410092&wc=6834962

Abram Flores

Armando:
I would read it over and over but my spanish is really bad i would tell my mom but she is not here.Can you please define the word dispensa to me?

Abram

Armando and Abram:

The marriage dispensation extended by the Dioceses of Guadalajara to Ignacio Delgadillo and Josepha Ballin on 2 April 1731 confirms that Nicolás Ballin who married Petrona Ramírez was the son of Nicolás Vázquez Ballín and Victoria de Montañez y Sotomayor. The link provided by Armando proves it.

Recapping: Nicolás Vázquez Ballín (aka Nicolás Ballín) married Victoria de Montañez y Sotomayor 16 Aug 1663 in Aguascalientes. Victoria was from Sierra de Pinos, where she was raised by her uncle Joseph Martín de Sotomayor and his wife Anna Vicente (Victoria's half sister). Sierra de Pinos is fairly close to Aguascalientes. She married twice, first to Nicolás Vázquez Ballin and after he died to Andrés Ruiz de Esparza. Her son Nicolás Ballin de Sotomayor was baptized 2 Dec 1670 in Aguascalientes. In 1692 Nicolás married Petrona Enríquez de Calderón (aka Petra de Islas, aka Petronila de Islas y Calderón) who resided in Nochistlán. Their marriage was recorded 26 June 1692 in Aguascalientes and 28 July 1692 in Nochistlán. They settled in Nochistlán where they had two children, Bartholomé and Juan Ballin. Petrona died 4 Dec 1693, only 16 months after their wedding. Nicolás remarried about five years later when he was 28 years old. His second wife Petrona Ramírez had a child María Iphigenia, baptized 5 December 1701 in Nochistlán. Another child, Juan, was baptized 24 May 1722 in Nochistlán. Other children have also been identified.

I believe Petronila de Cabrera and Petra de Olivares are aliases of Petrona Ramírez. Just a gut feeling that needs to be proved. The next step is to find the marriage record of Nicolás Ballin and Petrona Ramírez, probably in Nochistlán.

The book "Genealogía de Nochistlán, Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII según sus Archivos Parroquiales" by José Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías has been out of print for about 10 years. Unfortunately, José Luis is no longer with us. He died tragically in 2005 and, as far as I know, there are no plans to print a second edition. You can probably find a copy at a public library or Family History Center here in the US.

BILL FIGUEROA

Abram Flores,

 

Ok! I give in...I've been reading your postings, and I can no longer refrain  from asking the following questions.

 

If these questions are too personal or inappropriate for this list group, then just hit the delete key.

 

1.) How old are you?

 

2.)  Is English your first language? Was/is  Spanish spoken in your home?

 

3.)  You mentioned being in school, what grade are you in ?

 

and finally ...

 

4.) Why are you researching your ancestry... is this something you elected to do or is someone pressuring you to learn more about your ancestors?

 

Suggested reading material... get a Webster's 21st Century Spanish/English Dictionary.

 

 

Pat Silva Corbera

Tracy CA

 

 
----- Original Message -----
From: aflore2855@gmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 7:59:02 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nicolas Ballin Petrona Ramires

Abram Flores

Armando:
I would read it over and over but my spanish is really bad i would tell my mom but she is not here.Can you please define the word dispensa to me?

Abram

Abram Flores

Pat Silva

1)I am 15 years old

2)Actually spanish was my first language but then i moved into my aunts house where only english was spoken and mostly all my freinds spoke english and portuguese.And after a while it was hard for me to read spanish and talk it but i can understand.

3)Im a sophmore in high school.

4)I chose to learn about my ancestry it seemed so interesting and i just got completely addicted i wanted to find out what part of europe my ancestors came from just really curiouse.

While researching an unrelated couple, I came upon the following marriage record for Joseph Narsiso Ballin & Juana Gertrudis Pinto.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11592-124207-67?cc=1410092&wc=6810684

The marriage was on 27 Feb. 1736 in Aguascalientes. Parents for Joseph Narsiso are listed as Nicolas Ballin and Roza de Urquisa (both deceased). Perhaps a third marriage for Nicolas for you to research?

Regards,
Austin Perez

Dear Abram,

 

Thank you for answering my questions...

 

I am more than willing to share what I think is our Nochistlan connection as it was shared with me by a NuestrosRanchos member Deena Ortiz many years ago.

 

But I believe for you to learn more about the process of researching you will need to do the actual image look-ups on the LDS family search website.

   

I will get back to you tomorrow with  helping to answer your questions that you posted today.

 

I'm a little confused as to how you link with this line...

 

Is this your paternal or maternal ancestors?

 

I'm excited in proving your connection/lineage with that of my husband...

 

to be continued...

 

Pat Silva Corbera

p.s. I'm Portuguese - I'm almost 70 yrs old, and have two grandchildren Nicholas 15 and Sarah 11... for now they are not "that," interested in genealogy... but did ask questions when I told them that their grandfather's YDNA and mtDNA classified him as Native American.  They wanted to know what tribe his ancestors came from... LOL

 

 

 

 
----- Original Message -----
From: aflore2855@gmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 1:03:52 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Getting to know Abram Flores

Abram Flores

Pat Silva

1)I am 15 years old

2)Actually spanish was my first language but then i moved into my aunts house where only english was spoken and mostly all my freinds spoke english and portuguese.And after a while it was hard for me to read spanish and talk it but i can understand.

3)Im a sophmore in high school.

4)I chose to learn about my ancestry it seemed so interesting and i just got completely addicted i wanted to find out what part of europe my ancestors came from just really curiouse.

This Nicolas Ballin was the son of Diego Vallín and Francisca Ruiz de
Esparza whose Información Matrimonial was indexed by George Fulton. The
indexes he has created can be found at
http://www.nuestrosranchos.com/es/node/18014

It is my suggestion that once Abram Flores reaches his brick walls that he
learn to read the Información Matrimonial records for Nochistlán and start
to index them in a similar manner,

Armando

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 7:27 PM, wrote:

> While researching an unrelated couple, I came upon the following marriage
> record for Joseph Narsiso Ballin & Juana Gertrudis Pinto.
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.3.1/TH-266-11592-124207-**
> 67?cc=1410092&wc=6810684
>
> The marriage was on 27 Feb. 1736 in Aguascalientes. Parents for Joseph
> Narsiso are listed as Nicolas Ballin and Roza de Urquisa (both deceased).
> Perhaps a third marriage for Nicolas for you to research?
>
> Regards,
> Austin Perez

Saludos a todos. Hope all is well with everyone.

While looking for records in Lagos de Moreno for 1798, I came across records mixed for 1698.

Among them was the record for Nicolas Ballin hijo de Nicolas Ballin y Bictoria Sotomayor vuido de Petronilla de Yslas to be married to Petronilla Cabrera (Olivares) Francisco Olivares states that he has raised Petronilla Cabrera from a young tender age. Perhaps this question was already settled some time ago, but I did not find the follow up nodes if there was one. Thank you.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-V299-JV

Question: All information points to Petronilla Cabrera alias Olivares as being Petronilla Ramirez. She was 15 years old at time of marriage. Does anyone have any sources that have her as being also Ramirez?
Thanks,

Just reading the latest on these two and hope that someone will share the Sanchez/yanes dispensation. Thanks everyone for all the added information. Here is my take away of all the info.

Nicolas Ballin and Petronilla Cabrera alias Olivares had

Victoria Ballín Olivares
1705–1771 • GS6R-51P

And

Nicolas Ballin and Petronilla Ramirez had

Josefa Manuela Ballin Ramirez (Dispensa for Josefa manuela)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VT9V-TF

In a later dispensa (I have looked it up yet but according to a recent post),
Victoria Ballin Olivares and Josepha Ballin Ramirez are sisters stated in the dispensation of Joseph Manuel Sanchez Vasquez 9Q1L-HKG with Ricarda Yanes

Marriage record states 4th grade
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T7RC-R

We know that it is the same Nicholas Ballin and based on the children's births and how they line up with both Cabrera and Ramirez the point to the same person. Then dispensation stating both Josefa and victoria are sisters adds to the conclusion that Petronilla Cabrera, Petronilla Olivares and Petronilla Ramirez are all one person.

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