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HELP ON READING THIS MARRIAGE DOCUMENT

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By abram101 - Posted on 10 January 2012

Iv'e been trying to read this document for the past 2 hours and only found 10 words with help of my mom.So it would be awesome if some one can please translate this document for.

Document 363 page 322 LA Jabonera Felipe Armas Leonarda Lozano
link:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15697-37801-59?cc=1410092&wc=6835681

Abram,

You will find them once you use the procedures we have explained in
previous messages.

Armando

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:36 AM, wrote:

> Abram Flores
> sorry to ask but can you please put them like in order like this
> individuals father is or this individuals husband or wife is name them.

I must admit I got lost in following the exchange between  Abram Flores and Ranchos Members. 

 

It wasn't until  Armando's correction posting that I realized that Nicolas Yanes de Aguirre and Phelipa/Felipa Maria Gonzalez Contreras are my husband's (Florentino/Tino Corbera) 4th Great Grandparents. 

 

I have the following:

 

Nicolas and Phelipa parents of 7 children - (1) Juan Francisco Contreras Aguirre (2) Maria Josepha Gonzalez Aguirre (3) Rosa Maria Contreras Aguirre (4) Maria Gertrudis Contreras Aguirre (5) Maria Salome Contreras Aguirre  (6) Joseph Joaquin Aguirre and (7) Joseph Leonicio Contreras Aguirre.

 

Child # (6) Joseph Joaquin Aguirre and child # (7) Joseph Leonicio Contreras Aguirre are Tino's 3rd GGFathers.

 

Child # (6) descends to Tino's Maternal Great Grandmother Maria Aniseta Losano Aguirre and her second marriage to Jose Victoriano Rodriguez Perez, their son Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez is Tino's maternal Grandfather (Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez married Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade, they the parents of  Maria Refugio Perez born 4 July 1903 Rancho Jabonera, Nochistlan, Zacatecas, who is Tinos' mother).

 

Child # (7) Joseph Leonicio Aguirre Contreras is also Tino's 3rd GGF married to Juana Maria Perez Garcia, they the parents of  (Jose Timoteo Aguirre married to Maria Ambrosia Placencia, parents of Maria Senovia Aguirre, Tino's Great-Grandmother and her second husband  Juan Nepomuceno Delgadillo Andrade). Maria Senovia and Juan Nepomuceno parents of Maria Hilaria Aguirre Andrade and Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade. Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade is Tino's maternal Grandmother.  She and her husband Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez share common ancestry via Nicolas Yanes de Aguirre and Phelipa/Felipa Maria Gonzalez Contreras...

 

My PAF software program relationship calculator  lists them as spouses as well as 3rd cousins...

 

Maria Andrea Aguirre ANDRADE (mtDNA) and Jose Fernando Aguirre PEREZ are 3rd cousins. Their common ancestors are Nicolas Yanes de AGUIRRE and Phelipa Maria Gonzalez CONTRERAS.

 

To date I have not located a marriage record for Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez and Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade. I do have copies of their death records from Susanville Lassen County CA. USA.

Do in part to spelling variations I missed Abram Flores' question about "who is Manuel Lozano and Maria Agustina de Aguallo?"

This couple I have in my PAF as Jose Manuel Torres Losano and Maria Agustina de Aguayo.

They are also Tino's ancestors...

    

Pat Silva Corbera

Tracy CA

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Armando"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 7:52:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The groom's father

I just realized I gave you the wrong ones. The correct ones that are the
common ancestors of Felipe Armas and Leonarda Lozano are Nicolás de Aguirre
and Felipa Contreras. Manuel Lozano and Maria Agustina de Aguallo would
have caused a need for a dispensa in 4th degree of Margarito Armas Lozano
and Macedonia Jauregui Aguirre.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 9:11 PM, wrote:

> Abram Flores
> who is manuel lozano and maria agustina de aguallo?
>

Isn't that amazing. Abram's persistence has caused two people in the group to look seriously at the genealogical information and now they've found a family connection..........I love it!!

Our ancestors speak to us in whatever form is necessary to get our attention.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The groom's father

I must admit I got lost in following the exchange between  Abram Flores and Ranchos Members. 

 

It wasn't until  Armando's correction posting that I realized that Nicolas Yanes de Aguirre and Phelipa/Felipa Maria Gonzalez Contreras are my husband's (Florentino/Tino Corbera) 4th Great Grandparents. 

 

I have the following:

 

Nicolas and Phelipa parents of 7 children - (1) Juan Francisco Contreras Aguirre (2) Maria Josepha Gonzalez Aguirre (3) Rosa Maria Contreras Aguirre (4) Maria Gertrudis Contreras Aguirre (5) Maria Salome Contreras Aguirre  (6) Joseph Joaquin Aguirre and (7) Joseph Leonicio Contreras Aguirre.

 

Child # (6) Joseph Joaquin Aguirre and child # (7) Joseph Leonicio Contreras Aguirre are Tino's 3rd GGFathers.

 

Child # (6) descends to Tino's Maternal Great Grandmother Maria Aniseta Losano Aguirre and her second marriage to Jose Victoriano Rodriguez Perez, their son Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez is Tino's maternal Grandfather (Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez married Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade, they the parents of  Maria Refugio Perez born 4 July 1903 Rancho Jabonera, Nochistlan, Zacatecas, who is Tinos' mother).

 

Child # (7) Joseph Leonicio Aguirre Contreras is also Tino's 3rd GGF married to Juana Maria Perez Garcia, they the parents of  (Jose Timoteo Aguirre married to Maria Ambrosia Placencia, parents of Maria Senovia Aguirre, Tino's Great-Grandmother and her second husband  Juan Nepomuceno Delgadillo Andrade). Maria Senovia and Juan Nepomuceno parents of Maria Hilaria Aguirre Andrade and Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade. Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade is Tino's maternal Grandmother.  She and her husband Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez share common ancestry via Nicolas Yanes de Aguirre and Phelipa/Felipa Maria Gonzalez Contreras...

 

My PAF software program relationship calculator  lists them as spouses as well as 3rd cousins...

 

Maria Andrea Aguirre ANDRADE (mtDNA) and Jose Fernando Aguirre PEREZ are 3rd cousins. Their common ancestors are Nicolas Yanes de AGUIRRE and Phelipa Maria Gonzalez CONTRERAS.

 

To date I have not located a marriage record for Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez and Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade. I do have copies of their death records from Susanville Lassen County CA. USA.

Do in part to spelling variations I missed Abram Flores' question about "who is Manuel Lozano and Maria Agustina de Aguallo?"

This couple I have in my PAF as Jose Manuel Torres Losano and Maria Agustina de Aguayo.

They are also Tino's ancestors...

    

Pat Silva Corbera

Tracy CA

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Armando"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 7:52:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The groom's father

I just realized I gave you the wrong ones. The correct ones that are the
common ancestors of Felipe Armas and Leonarda Lozano are Nicolás de Aguirre
and Felipa Contreras. Manuel Lozano and Maria Agustina de Aguallo would
have caused a need for a dispensa in 4th degree of Margarito Armas Lozano
and Macedonia Jauregui Aguirre.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 9:11 PM, wrote:

> Abram Flores
> who is manuel lozano and maria agustina de aguallo?
>

Hello Steven,
 
 First of all I would like to say that I do not speak Spanish, and my Spanish reading skills are very limited to say the least.
 
 By using Webster's 21st Century Spanish/English Dictionary and applying what I call "common sense," I tend to get the basic meaning of the postings written in Spanish.
 
 Steven,  your posting was a challenge for me and any corrections in my translation/understand of it will be greatly appreciate.
 
At first I didn't think this Armas/Lozano discussion applied to my husband (Tino's) ancestry, but as stated in my previous email I later found a common ancestry connection to various individuals being mentioned.
 
I believe your posting states you are a descendant/desciendo, of Juan Jose de Armas and of Rosa Maria de Aguirre, and that this "trunk," is common to the Armas in discussion.
 
My husband (Tino) also has a strong connection with ancestors/family from Nochislan, one being Rosa Maria de Aguirre, who is Tino's 3rd GreatGrand-Aunt, bapt 22 March 1752. 
The only information I have for Rosa, is that she is the daughter of Nicolas Yanes de Aguirre and Phelipa Maria Gonzalez Contreras.
 
Here's where I need help... Is Juan Jose de Armas the spouse of Rosa Maria de Aguirre, and if so, what is the source of that information and the names of their offspring.?.
 
Are you saying that Felipe Armas and Leonarda Lozano are related/sharing common ancestry in the 4th degree, and are 3rd cousins (?)  and that the common ancestry/trunk is Joseph Maria Perez Sotelo and Maria Garcia (married 01 Oct 1755 in Nochistlan) ?
 
Joseph Maria Sotelo Perez and Maria Garcia are my husband's 4th GGParents. I have only one child noted for them, a Juana Maria Perez Garcia, who married Joseph Leonicio Aguirre Contreras. This couple is my husband's 3rd  GGParents.
 
Steven, will you please explain the "trunk," listing that you posted for Joseph Maria Perez Sotelo and Maria Garcia...how is Ignacio Perez related to them as well as the other individuals noted?.
 
From all this I believe that you and my husband Florentino L. Corbera Jr. are related... not sure to what degree...
 
Sincerely,
Patricia J. Silva Corbera
 
 
 
 
 

 
----- Original Message -----
From: PacoHernandez73@msn.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 2:50:33 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Parentesco de Consanguinidad en cuarto grado        igual

Estimados colegas y primos,

Desde un principio me interesó esta discusión sobre la familia Armas, pero ahora que analizo cuidadosamente el acta de Felipe Armas y Leonarda Lozano, puedo establecer que los dos están emparentados conmigo.  Yo desciendo de Juan José de Armas y de Rosa María de Aguirre, tronco común de estos Armas aquí en discusión.  También conecto con otras familias de Nochistlán, como los Durán, Armas, Yáñez, Juárez, Lozano, Sandoval, etc. contenidas en está genealogía.  

Me puse a investigar un poco en FamilySearch y en mis archivos, y establecí que en realidad Felipe Armas y Leonarda Lozano tenían un parentesco de consanguinidad de cuarto grado igual, o sea que eran primos terceros.  El tronco común de ellos eran Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García [casados el primero de octubre de 1755, en Nochistlán].  El parentesco se puede resumir de la siguiente forma:

                         TRONCO
        Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García
      Ignacio Pérez........1........Ma. Deseana Pérez
    Ma. Refugio Pérez......2......Ma. Sebastiana Yáñez
      Antonio Armas........3.........Ma. Luisa Durán
       Felipe Armas........4.........Leonarda Lozano

Es necesario informarles entonces que Manuel Lozano y María Agustina de Aguayo no son el tronco común de esta pareja, como se había aseverado anteriormente.

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Hello Steven,
 
 First of all I would like to say that I do not speak Spanish, and my Spanish reading skills are very limited to say the least.
 
 By using Webster's 21st Century Spanish/English Dictionary and applying what I call "common sense," I tend to get the basic meaning of the postings written in Spanish.
 
 Steven,  your posting was a challenge for me and any corrections in my translation/understand of it will be greatly appreciate.
 
At first I didn't think this Armas/Lozano discussion applied to my husband (Tino's) ancestry, but as stated in my previous email I later found a common ancestry connection to various individuals being mentioned.
 
I believe your posting states you are a descendant/desciendo, of Juan Jose de Armas and of Rosa Maria de Aguirre, and that this "trunk," is common to the Armas in discussion.
 
My husband (Tino) also has a strong connection with ancestors/family from Nochislan, one being Rosa Maria de Aguirre, who is Tino's 3rd GreatGrand-Aunt, bapt 22 March 1752. 
The only information I have for Rosa, is that she is the daughter of Nicolas Yanes de Aguirre and Phelipa Maria Gonzalez Contreras.
 
Here's where I need help... Is Juan Jose de Armas the spouse of Rosa Maria de Aguirre, and if so, what is the source of that information and the names of their offspring.?.
 
Are you saying that Felipe Armas and Leonarda Lozano are related/sharing common ancestry in the 4th degree, and are 3rd cousins (?)  and that the common ancestry/trunk is Joseph Maria Perez Sotelo and Maria Garcia (married 01 Oct 1755 in Nochistlan) ?
 
Joseph Maria Sotelo Perez and Maria Garcia are my husband's 4th GGParents. I have only one child noted for them, a Juana Maria Perez Garcia, who married Joseph Leonicio Aguirre Contreras. This couple is my husband's 3rd  GGParents.
 
Steven, will you please explain the "trunk," listing that you posted for Joseph Maria Perez Sotelo and Maria Garcia...how is Ignacio Perez related to them as well as the other individuals noted?.
 
From all this I believe that you and my husband Florentino L. Corbera Jr. are related... not sure to what degree...
 
Sincerely,
Patricia J. Silva Corbera
 
 
 
 
 

 
----- Original Message -----
From: PacoHernandez73@msn.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 2:50:33 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Parentesco de Consanguinidad en cuarto grado        igual

Estimados colegas y primos,

Desde un principio me interesó esta discusión sobre la familia Armas, pero ahora que analizo cuidadosamente el acta de Felipe Armas y Leonarda Lozano, puedo establecer que los dos están emparentados conmigo.  Yo desciendo de Juan José de Armas y de Rosa María de Aguirre, tronco común de estos Armas aquí en discusión.  También conecto con otras familias de Nochistlán, como los Durán, Armas, Yáñez, Juárez, Lozano, Sandoval, etc. contenidas en está genealogía.  

Me puse a investigar un poco en FamilySearch y en mis archivos, y establecí que en realidad Felipe Armas y Leonarda Lozano tenían un parentesco de consanguinidad de cuarto grado igual, o sea que eran primos terceros.  El tronco común de ellos eran Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García [casados el primero de octubre de 1755, en Nochistlán].  El parentesco se puede resumir de la siguiente forma:

                         TRONCO
        Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García
      Ignacio Pérez........1........Ma. Deseana Pérez
    Ma. Refugio Pérez......2......Ma. Sebastiana Yáñez
      Antonio Armas........3.........Ma. Luisa Durán
       Felipe Armas........4.........Leonarda Lozano

Es necesario informarles entonces que Manuel Lozano y María Agustina de Aguayo no son el tronco común de esta pareja, como se había aseverado anteriormente.

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Acabo de encontrar otro

Tronco Joaquín de Aguirre y Lorenza Corona
María Remigia de Aguirre...1...Miguel de Aguirre
Serbulo Lozano.................2...Jacinta Aguirre
Leonarda Lozano...............3...Francisca Glz
Margarito Armas...............4...Macedonia Jauregui

Armando

I'd like to mention what actually drew me into taking the time to go back and read the postings with reference to Abram's questions was the patience shown in answering his questions by Rancho members.  It brought to mind, the only "dumb" question is the question not asked...

Yep! Tino's  Perez ancestors from Nochistlan have truly spoken today...
 
I keep praying that the Corbera "clan," hears and answers my prayers!
 
Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA

----- Original Message -----

From: "Alicia Carrillo"
To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 12:51:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The groom's father

Isn't that amazing. Abram's persistence has caused two people in the group to look seriously at the genealogical information and now they've found a family connection..........I love it!!

Our ancestors speak to us in whatever form is necessary to get our attention.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
 From: Pat Corbera
To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The groom's father
 

I must admit I got lost in following the exchange between  Abram Flores and Ranchos Members. 

 

It wasn't until  Armando's correction posting that I realized that Nicolas Yanes de Aguirre and Phelipa/Felipa Maria Gonzalez Contreras are my husband's (Florentino/Tino Corbera) 4th Great Grandparents. 

 

I have the following:

 

Nicolas and Phelipa parents of 7 children - (1) Juan Francisco Contreras Aguirre (2) Maria Josepha Gonzalez Aguirre (3) Rosa Maria Contreras Aguirre (4) Maria Gertrudis Contreras Aguirre (5) Maria Salome Contreras Aguirre  (6) Joseph Joaquin Aguirre and (7) Joseph Leonicio Contreras Aguirre.

 

Child # (6) Joseph Joaquin Aguirre and child # (7) Joseph Leonicio Contreras Aguirre are Tino's 3rd GGFathers.

 

Child # (6) descends to Tino's Maternal Great Grandmother Maria Aniseta Losano Aguirre and her second marriage to Jose Victoriano Rodriguez Perez, their son Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez is Tino's maternal Grandfather (Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez married Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade, they the parents of  Maria Refugio Perez born 4 July 1903 Rancho Jabonera, Nochistlan, Zacatecas, who is Tinos' mother).

 

Child # (7) Joseph Leonicio Aguirre Contreras is also Tino's 3rd GGF married to Juana Maria Perez Garcia, they the parents of  (Jose Timoteo Aguirre married to Maria Ambrosia Placencia, parents of Maria Senovia Aguirre, Tino's Great-Grandmother and her second husband  Juan Nepomuceno Delgadillo Andrade). Maria Senovia and Juan Nepomuceno parents of Maria Hilaria Aguirre Andrade and Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade. Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade is Tino's maternal Grandmother.  She and her husband Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez share common ancestry via Nicolas Yanes de Aguirre and Phelipa/Felipa Maria Gonzalez Contreras...

 

My PAF software program relationship calculator  lists them as spouses as well as 3rd cousins...

 

Maria Andrea Aguirre ANDRADE (mtDNA) and Jose Fernando Aguirre PEREZ are 3rd cousins. Their common ancestors are Nicolas Yanes de AGUIRRE and Phelipa Maria Gonzalez CONTRERAS.

 

To date I have not located a marriage record for Jose Fernando Aguirre Perez and Maria Andrea Aguirre Andrade. I do have copies of their death records from Susanville Lassen County CA. USA.

Do in part to spelling variations I missed Abram Flores' question about "who is Manuel Lozano and Maria Agustina de Aguallo?"

This couple I have in my PAF as Jose Manuel Torres Losano and Maria Agustina de Aguayo.

They are also Tino's ancestors...

    

Pat Silva Corbera

Tracy CA

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Armando"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 7:52:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The groom's father

I just realized I gave you the wrong ones. The correct ones that are the
common ancestors of Felipe Armas and Leonarda Lozano are Nicolás de Aguirre
and Felipa Contreras. Manuel Lozano and Maria Agustina de Aguallo would
have caused a need for a dispensa in 4th degree of Margarito Armas Lozano
and Macedonia Jauregui Aguirre.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 9:11 PM, wrote:

> Abram Flores
> who is manuel lozano and maria agustina de aguallo?
>

Abram Flores
This is awesome.

Abram Flores
okay so it goes like this right felipe armas marries leonarda lozano antonio armas marrie ma. luisa duran ma. refugio perez married sebastiana yanez ignacio perez married ma. deseana perez joseph maria perez sotelo married maria garcia.and i still didnt get the first tronco

Nope.
TRONCO
Joseph María Pérez Sotelo y María García = They married
Ignacio Pérez........1........Ma. Deseana Pérez = They are their children, so they are brother and sister.
Ma. Refugio Pérez......2......Ma. Sebastiana Yáñez = Both female, they are cousins and their granddaughters.
Antonio Armas........3.........Ma. Luisa Durán = They are second cousins and their great-grandchildren
Felipe Armas........4.........Leonarda Lozano = They are third cousins, their gg-grandchildren, and they married.

Victoriano Navarro

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