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Help with translation of baptismal record

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By Sherri Mora - Posted on 28 October 2011

Hi,
I'm hoping someone can help me with the baptismal record of Mauricia Munos Jayme dated 30 Sep 1834. Link: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18568-54957-94?cc=1874591&wc=12505143 She is the "hija legitima" of Jose Munos and Maria de Jesus Jayme. I have found and viewed the films confirming 6 brothers and sisters. For some, the paternal grandparents have been listed as Jose Munos and Luiza Munos or just Luiza Munos (no mention of Jose or whether or not he was deceased) and this entry for Mauricia that may be translated something like "no given ______". I don't know what the last word is; it may be an abbreviation. Thanks for your help. I hope it's something interesting. I learn so much from this group.

Sherri Mora

Saul Navarro
After viewing the image you are asking about it says that of the Paternal and Maternal grandparents "no dan rason". Which translates to the fact that maybe when asked who were the grandparents of Mauricia, her parents refused to name them or no answer was given. I have seen this in other baptismal documents. The other abbreviation I saw was the padrinos were Luis Jayme and Maria Cuevas. Hope this helps Saul

Thomas Casillas

'no dan rason' translates into 'no reason given'

don't forget the fact that the mother was seldom at the baptism and it's probably the godparents who were asked and just didn't know the names of the grandparents.

________________________________
From: "hartparkangler@yahoo.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help with translation of

Saul Navarro
            After viewing the image you are asking about it says that of the Paternal and Maternal grandparents "no dan rason". Which translates to the fact that maybe when asked who were the grandparents of Mauricia, her parents refused to name them or no answer was given. I have seen this in other baptismal documents. The other abbreviation I saw was the padrinos were Luis Jayme and Maria Cuevas. Hope this helps Saul

A. P. y mat. no dan razon, meaning grandparents Paternos y maternos (paternal and maternal) they gave no information about it or names were not given up for the record. Next is the reference is to padrinos or godparents Luis Jayme y María Cuebas

 
Sincerely Leticia Leon

________________________________
De: "kanakalele@aol.com"
Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Enviado: Jueves, 27 de octubre, 2011 21:19:49
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help with translation of baptismal record

Hi,
I'm hoping someone can help me with the baptismal record of Mauricia Munos Jayme dated 30 Sep 1834. Link:  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18568-54957-94?cc=1874591&wc=12505143  She is the "hija legitima" of Jose Munos and Maria de Jesus Jayme. I have found and viewed the films confirming 6 brothers and sisters. For some, the paternal grandparents have been listed as Jose Munos and Luiza Munos or just Luiza Munos (no mention of Jose or whether or not he was deceased) and this entry for Mauricia that may be translated something like "no given ______". I don't know what the last word is; it may be an abbreviation. Thanks for your help. I hope it's something interesting. I learn so much from this group.

Sherri Mora

It could also mean that they do not know who they are.

Saludos,

Eduardo H Seoane

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Leticia Leon wrote:

> A. P. y mat. no dan razon, meaning grandparents Paternos y maternos
> (paternal and maternal) they gave no information about it or names were not
> given up for the record. Next is the reference is to padrinos or godparents
> Luis Jayme y María Cuebas
>
>
> Sincerely Leticia Leon
>
> ________________________________
> De: "kanakalele@aol.com"
> Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> Enviado: Jueves, 27 de octubre, 2011 21:19:49
> Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help with translation of baptismal record
>
> Hi,
> I'm hoping someone can help me with the baptismal record of Mauricia Munos
> Jayme dated 30 Sep 1834. Link:
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18568-54957-94?cc=1874591&wc=12505143
> She is the "hija legitima" of Jose Munos and Maria de Jesus Jayme. I have
> found and viewed the films confirming 6 brothers and sisters. For some, the
> paternal grandparents have been listed as Jose Munos and Luiza Munos or just
> Luiza Munos (no mention of Jose or whether or not he was deceased) and this
> entry for Mauricia that may be translated something like "no given ______".
> I don't know what the last word is; it may be an abbreviation. Thanks for
> your help. I hope it's something interesting. I learn so much from this
> group.
>
> Sherri Mora

All responses make sense. However, there is a difference between a translation and a meaning. I would translate those three words as 'they didn't say'. All meanings given are reasonable, but we do not know why they didn't provide the names of the grandparents. Sometimes there are several pages with the same phrase and I tend to think the priest or his 'teniente' (assistant or substitute priest) forgot to ask, among all the other reasons shared by the group.
In my humble opinion.

Angelina Casillas

Todavía se puede escuchar en algunas personas "Dame razón de tu papá" Lo que significaría algo así como "Dime qué ha sido de tu papá"

"se fue sin dar razones" es algo así como: "se fue sin dar explicaciones"

"¿Cómo has estado? Dame razón" es algo así como "Cuéntame cómo has estado"

Espero haber ayudado.

Luis Arturo Huerta Rodrìguez

Thank you to everyone for your help. With the films being available online, it really helps to find more clues and verify information. In viewing Mauricia's father's marriage record (Jose Munos to Maria de Jesus Jayme),see link: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-60344-56?cc=1874591&wc=12505434 it may be that Jose was an "hijo natural". It's hard to tell if the letter is an "n" or an "l" with an ink spot. Unfortunately, the marriage information/investigation record is not online (many years are missing) so I can't get a second opinion. I've tried doing a search for the marriage information of Jose and Maria's children, hoping there may be a clue but I think that time period is not yet indexed. Just a reinforcement of how our volunteer efforts really make a difference. Thanks again to all who answered and for those that started this group.
Sherri Mora

Hi Sherri,
It says the following:
Jose Munos originario y vecino de este curato en Guarachi hijo natural de Luiza Munos y Maria de Jesus Jayme originaria y vecina del mismo puesto hija legitima de Jose guadalup Jayme y de Maria de la Merced de Pedrosa. If you notice Rafael Jayme "Jaime" is the cura or parish priest, a relative of ours, not sure how. The Jaime family has never been fully studied and researched. I hope to at least look at it when I have more time.
Let me know if you need help. Whenever I help others I also learn.
In case you dont have this Martina Jaime Pedrosa was baptized 16 Nov 1811 in Encarnacion de Diaz.Grandaughter of Tadeo Jaime and Francisca Nieto; Joseph de Pedroza and Maria de Cuevas.
Daniel Mendez Camino

Sherry:
En los siguientes links encuentras informacion muy util para tu linea de los Xayme, de quienes desciendo por varias lineas, siendo emas antiguo que he encontrado George Xaymes

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-56934-53?cc=1874591&wc=12505434

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-60460-47?cc=1874591&wc=12505434
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18403-69808-57?cc=1874591&wc=12512794

_________________________________________________________
The following links are very useful information for your line of Xayme, from whom I descended by several lines, being the oldest I've found George Xaymes.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-56934-53?cc=1874591&wc=12505434

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-60460-47?cc=1874591&wc=12505434
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18403-69808-57?cc=1874591&wc=12512794

Miguel Beltran
Lo que dás fructifica. Lo que te guardas se pudre.
What you give fruitful. What you keep rot

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