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Dispensas

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By alicebb - Posted on 13 July 2011

Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk of sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion matrimonial?  With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be totally worth it.  Thanks so much.
Alice

Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo allow
the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and normally
the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if the
church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").

And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to the
groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they ask for
the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion matrimonial.

I hope this help you

Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales cuando
los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una limosna
de por medio.

Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la info
matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk of
> sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> matrimonial? With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be totally
> worth it. Thanks so much.
> Alice

Thanks Patty.  So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was required it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial.  So when I research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if a dispensa was necessary, I would find it there.  All this time, I thought dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner.  Thanks so much,  Alice     

--- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:

From: patty haro
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM

Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo allow
the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and normally
the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if the
church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").

And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to the
groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they ask for
the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion matrimonial.

I hope this help you

Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales cuando
los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una limosna
de por medio.

Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la info
matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk of
> sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> matrimonial?  With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be totally
> worth it.  Thanks so much.
> Alice

Well, some times you can find the complete dispensa there and other times
just the letter allowing the marriage, depending on the priest

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Thanks Patty. So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was required
> it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial. So when I
> research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place
> and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate
> dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if a
> dispensa was necessary, I would find it there. All this time, I thought
> dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner. Thanks so
> much, Alice
>
> --- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:
>
>
> From: patty haro
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM
>
>
> Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo allow
> the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and normally
> the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if the
> church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").
>
> And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to the
> groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they ask
> for
> the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion matrimonial.
>
> I hope this help you
>
> Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales
> cuando
> los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
> parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
> dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una limosna
> de por medio.
>
> Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
> solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
> impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la info
> matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
> > Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk of
> > sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> > matrimonial? With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be totally
> > worth it. Thanks so much.
> > Alice
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> >

Alice, the información matrimonial normally would only mention that there
was a dispensa, with some exceptions. The dispensas are very valuable
because a majority of the time they contain genealogical info past the
parents unlike the matrimonios and the información matrimonial. A majority
of the dispensas are located in the matrimonio records from Guadalajara
under Diócesis de Guadalajara because the bishop would have to give the
permission and the bishop for the majority of our area was located in
Guadalajara.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405426There
is also a list of dispensas for San Juan de los Lagos. I haven't
reviewed these at all so I don't know what they contain.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405485

Armando

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Thanks Patty. So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was required
> it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial. So when I
> research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place
> and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate
> dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if a
> dispensa was necessary, I would find it there. All this time, I thought
> dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner. Thanks so
> much, Alice
>
> --- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:
>
>
> From: patty haro
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM
>
>
> Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo allow
> the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and normally
> the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if the
> church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").
>
> And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to the
> groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they ask
> for
> the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion matrimonial.
>
> I hope this help you
>
> Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales
> cuando
> los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
> parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
> dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una limosna
> de por medio.
>
> Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
> solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
> impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la info
> matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
> > Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk of
> > sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> > matrimonial? With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be totally
> > worth it. Thanks so much.
> > Alice
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> >

Wow Armando.  This is all new information for me.  I went to the Diocesis of Guadalajara and saw the categories of capellanias (dictionary translation says chaplain), matrimonios, and ordenes.  Not sure what capellanias refer to in this context because I never got an image to open, and does ordenes refer to holy orders or ordination? 
Where can I access a chronological history of the breakdown of the Guadalajara diocesis?  In other words, when other diocesis were carved out of there.  That would be really useful.  Thanks so much.   Alice  

--- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:

From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 1:54 AM

Alice, the información matrimonial normally would only mention that there
was a dispensa, with some exceptions. The dispensas are very valuable
because a majority of the time they contain genealogical info past the
parents unlike the matrimonios and the información matrimonial. A majority
of the dispensas are located in the matrimonio records from Guadalajara
under Diócesis de Guadalajara because the bishop would have to give the
permission and the bishop for the majority of our area was located in
Guadalajara.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405426There
is also a list of dispensas for San Juan de los Lagos. I haven't
reviewed these at all so I don't know what they contain.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405485

Armando

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Thanks Patty.  So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was required
> it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial.  So when I
> research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place
> and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate
> dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if a
> dispensa was necessary, I would find it there.  All this time, I thought
> dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner.  Thanks so
> much,  Alice
>
> --- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:
>
>
> From: patty haro
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM
>
>
> Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo allow
> the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and normally
> the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if the
> church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").
>
> And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to the
> groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they ask
> for
> the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion matrimonial.
>
> I hope this help you
>
> Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales
> cuando
> los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
> parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
> dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una limosna
> de por medio.
>
> Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
> solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
> impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la info
> matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
> > Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk of
> > sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> > matrimonial?  With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be totally
> > worth it.  Thanks so much.
> > Alice
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> >

Alice,

Capellanías are the payments people would make so masses would be said for
them after their death to ensure the salvation of their soul. Wikipedia has
a good explanation in Spanish at
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capellan%C3%ADa
Ordenes is the investigation of a person to see if they are worthy of
becoming a priest.
A chronological history of the breakdown of the Guadalajara diocese can be
found at http://www.gcatholic.com/dioceses/diocese/guad0.htm and at
http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dguad.html#former I never thought
I would find this info.

For some reason the earlier link for the Diócesis de Guadalajara link had
added on a word from another sentence. Here it is again for everyone else
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405426

Armando

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Wow Armando. This is all new information for me. I went to the Diocesis
> of Guadalajara and saw the categories of capellanias (dictionary translation
> says chaplain), matrimonios, and ordenes. Not sure what capellanias refer
> to in this context because I never got an image to open, and does ordenes
> refer to holy orders or ordination?
> Where can I access a chronological history of the breakdown of the
> Guadalajara diocesis? In other words, when other diocesis were carved out
> of there. That would be really useful. Thanks so much. Alice
>
> --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:
>
>
> From: Armando
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 1:54 AM
>
>
> Alice, the información matrimonial normally would only mention that there
> was a dispensa, with some exceptions. The dispensas are very valuable
> because a majority of the time they contain genealogical info past the
> parents unlike the matrimonios and the información matrimonial. A majority
> of the dispensas are located in the matrimonio records from Guadalajara
> under Diócesis de Guadalajara because the bishop would have to give the
> permission and the bishop for the majority of our area was located in
> Guadalajara.
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405426
>

>
> There is also a list of dispensas for San Juan de los Lagos. I haven't
> reviewed these at all so I don't know what they contain.
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405485
>
> Armando
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
> > Thanks Patty. So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was
> required
> > it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial. So when I
> > research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place
> > and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate
> > dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if a
> > dispensa was necessary, I would find it there. All this time, I thought
> > dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner. Thanks
> so
> > much, Alice
> >
> > --- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: patty haro
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> > Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM
> >
> >
> > Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo
> allow
> > the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and
> normally
> > the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if the
> > church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").
> >
> > And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to
> the
> > groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they ask
> > for
> > the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion
> matrimonial.
> >
> > I hope this help you
> >
> > Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales
> > cuando
> > los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
> > parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
> > dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una
> limosna
> > de por medio.
> >
> > Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
> > solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
> > impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la
> info
> > matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> >
> > > Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk of
> > > sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> > > matrimonial? With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be
> totally
> > > worth it. Thanks so much.
> > > Alice
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> >

Armando,  Thanks so much for the explanation.  I can see where knowing what cities and towns were under Guadalajara's diocese at different points in time makes all the difference in the usefulness of this resource.
Unless I missed it.  I didn't see a map illustrating the geographical area the diocese emcompassed throughout its history.  I thought that one point even Monterrey, NL was under the Guadalajara diocese, but I could be wrong.  Again thank you for your help.   Alice 

--- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:

From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 3:17 PM

Alice,

Capellanías are the payments people would make so masses would be said for
them after their death to ensure the salvation of their soul. Wikipedia has
a good explanation in Spanish at
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capellan%C3%ADa
Ordenes is the investigation of a person to see if they are worthy of
becoming a priest.
A chronological history of the breakdown of the Guadalajara diocese can be
found at http://www.gcatholic.com/dioceses/diocese/guad0.htm and at
http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dguad.html#former I never thought
I would find this info.

For some reason the earlier link for the Diócesis de Guadalajara link had
added on a word from another sentence. Here it is again for everyone else
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405426

Armando

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Wow Armando.  This is all new information for me.  I went to the Diocesis
> of Guadalajara and saw the categories of capellanias (dictionary translation
> says chaplain), matrimonios, and ordenes.  Not sure what capellanias refer
> to in this context because I never got an image to open, and does ordenes
> refer to holy orders or ordination?
> Where can I access a chronological history of the breakdown of the
> Guadalajara diocesis?  In other words, when other diocesis were carved out
> of there.  That would be really useful.  Thanks so much.   Alice
>
> --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:
>
>
> From: Armando
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 1:54 AM
>
>
> Alice, the información matrimonial normally would only mention that there
> was a dispensa, with some exceptions. The dispensas are very valuable
> because a majority of the time they contain genealogical info past the
> parents unlike the matrimonios and the información matrimonial. A majority
> of the dispensas are located in the matrimonio records from Guadalajara
> under Diócesis de Guadalajara because the bishop would have to give the
> permission and the bishop for the majority of our area was located in
> Guadalajara.
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405426
>

>
> There is also a list of dispensas for San Juan de los Lagos. I haven't
> reviewed these at all so I don't know what they contain.
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405485
>
> Armando
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
> > Thanks Patty.  So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was
> required
> > it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial.  So when I
> > research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place
> > and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate
> > dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if a
> > dispensa was necessary, I would find it there.  All this time, I thought
> > dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner.  Thanks
> so
> > much,  Alice
> >
> > --- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: patty haro
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> > Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM
> >
> >
> > Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo
> allow
> > the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and
> normally
> > the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if the
> > church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").
> >
> > And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to
> the
> > groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they ask
> > for
> > the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion
> matrimonial.
> >
> > I hope this help you
> >
> > Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales
> > cuando
> > los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
> > parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
> > dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una
> limosna
> > de por medio.
> >
> > Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
> > solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
> > impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la
> info
> > matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> >
> > > Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk of
> > > sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> > > matrimonial?  With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be
> totally
> > > worth it.  Thanks so much.
> > > Alice
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> >

Alice, Monterrey was under the diocese of Michoacán until 15 December 1777.
After that it was under the Diocese of Linares o Nueva León. I do see a note
that says 26 January 1863 Metropolitan Changed Diocese of Linares o Nueva
León (From Mexico (Mexico) to Guadalajara (Mexico)). I don't know what the
details on that are though.
http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dmonm.html#hist

Armando

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Armando, Thanks so much for the explanation. I can see where knowing what
> cities and towns were under Guadalajara's diocese at different points in
> time makes all the difference in the usefulness of this resource.
> Unless I missed it. I didn't see a map illustrating the geographical area
> the diocese emcompassed throughout its history. I thought that one
> point even Monterrey, NL was under the Guadalajara diocese, but I could be
> wrong. Again thank you for your help. Alice
>
> --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:
>
>
> From: Armando
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 3:17 PM
>
>
> Alice,
>
> Capellanías are the payments people would make so masses would be said for
> them after their death to ensure the salvation of their soul. Wikipedia has
> a good explanation in Spanish at
> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capellan%C3%ADa
> Ordenes is the investigation of a person to see if they are worthy of
> becoming a priest.
> A chronological history of the breakdown of the Guadalajara diocese can be
> found at http://www.gcatholic.com/dioceses/diocese/guad0.htm and at
> http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dguad.html#former I never
> thought
> I would find this info.
>
> For some reason the earlier link for the Diócesis de Guadalajara link had
> added on a word from another sentence. Here it is again for everyone else
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405426
>
> Armando
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
> > Wow Armando. This is all new information for me. I went to the Diocesis
> > of Guadalajara and saw the categories of capellanias (dictionary
> translation
> > says chaplain), matrimonios, and ordenes. Not sure what capellanias
> refer
> > to in this context because I never got an image to open, and does ordenes
> > refer to holy orders or ordination?
> > Where can I access a chronological history of the breakdown of the
> > Guadalajara diocesis? In other words, when other diocesis were carved
> out
> > of there. That would be really useful. Thanks so much. Alice
> >
> > --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Armando
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> > Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 1:54 AM
> >
> >
> > Alice, the información matrimonial normally would only mention that there
> > was a dispensa, with some exceptions. The dispensas are very valuable
> > because a majority of the time they contain genealogical info past the
> > parents unlike the matrimonios and the información matrimonial. A
> majority
> > of the dispensas are located in the matrimonio records from Guadalajara
> > under Diócesis de Guadalajara because the bishop would have to give the
> > permission and the bishop for the majority of our area was located in
> > Guadalajara.
> >
> >
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405426
> >
>
>
> >
> > There is also a list of dispensas for San Juan de los Lagos. I haven't
> > reviewed these at all so I don't know what they contain.
> >
> >
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405485
> >
> > Armando
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Patty. So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was
> > required
> > > it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial. So when
> I
> > > research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place
> > > and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate
> > > dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if
> a
> > > dispensa was necessary, I would find it there. All this time, I
> thought
> > > dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner.
> Thanks
> > so
> > > much, Alice
> > >
> > > --- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: patty haro
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> > > Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM
> > >
> > >
> > > Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo
> > allow
> > > the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and
> > normally
> > > the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if
> the
> > > church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").
> > >
> > > And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to
> > the
> > > groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they
> ask
> > > for
> > > the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion
> > matrimonial.
> > >
> > > I hope this help you
> > >
> > > Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales
> > > cuando
> > > los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
> > > parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
> > > dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una
> > limosna
> > > de por medio.
> > >
> > > Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
> > > solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
> > > impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la
> > info
> > > matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> > >
> > > > Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk
> of
> > > > sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> > > > matrimonial? With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be
> > totally
> > > > worth it. Thanks so much.
> > > > Alice
> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > >
> > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> > > >
> > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> > > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> >

Armando,   This is where I got the idea that Nuevo Leon was under the Guadalajara diocese.  In Israel Cavazaos Garza, Breve historia de Nuevo Leon, p.104 it reads:  "Ya en 1741, el obispo de Guadalajara, don Juan Gomez de Parada, establecio una escuela formal y nombro como maestro a Martin de Arrambide (my 6grgrandfather), encargandole mucho la buena educacion de los ninos."  The author  doesn't really say what city in Nuevo Leon.  Do you think Nuevo Leon was divided in regards to dioceses?  This is where a map illustrating dioceses at different times in history would be helpful.  Then again, my Spanish literacy isn't the greatest, so I might have misunderstood.     Thanks again,  Alice

--- On Tue, 7/19/11, Armando wrote:

From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
Date: Tuesday, July 19, 2011, 10:20 PM

Alice, Monterrey was under the diocese of Michoacán until 15 December 1777.
After that it was under the Diocese of Linares o Nueva León. I do see a note
that says 26 January 1863 Metropolitan Changed Diocese of Linares o Nueva
León (From Mexico (Mexico) to Guadalajara (Mexico)). I don't know what the
details on that are though.
http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dmonm.html#hist

Armando

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Armando,  Thanks so much for the explanation.  I can see where knowing what
> cities and towns were under Guadalajara's diocese at different points in
> time makes all the difference in the usefulness of this resource.
> Unless I missed it.  I didn't see a map illustrating the geographical area
> the diocese emcompassed throughout its history.  I thought that one
> point even Monterrey, NL was under the Guadalajara diocese, but I could be
> wrong.  Again thank you for your help.   Alice
>
> --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:
>
>
> From: Armando
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 3:17 PM
>
>
> Alice,
>
> Capellanías are the payments people would make so masses would be said for
> them after their death to ensure the salvation of their soul. Wikipedia has
> a good explanation in Spanish at
> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capellan%C3%ADa
> Ordenes is the investigation of a person to see if they are worthy of
> becoming a priest.
> A chronological history of the breakdown of the Guadalajara diocese can be
> found at http://www.gcatholic.com/dioceses/diocese/guad0.htm and at
> http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dguad.html#former I never
> thought
> I would find this info.
>
> For some reason the earlier link for the Diócesis de Guadalajara link had
> added on a word from another sentence. Here it is again for everyone else
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405426
>
> Armando
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
> > Wow Armando.  This is all new information for me.  I went to the Diocesis
> > of Guadalajara and saw the categories of capellanias (dictionary
> translation
> > says chaplain), matrimonios, and ordenes.  Not sure what capellanias
> refer
> > to in this context because I never got an image to open, and does ordenes
> > refer to holy orders or ordination?
> > Where can I access a chronological history of the breakdown of the
> > Guadalajara diocesis?  In other words, when other diocesis were carved
> out
> > of there.  That would be really useful.  Thanks so much.   Alice
> >
> > --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Armando wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Armando
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> > Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 1:54 AM
> >
> >
> > Alice, the información matrimonial normally would only mention that there
> > was a dispensa, with some exceptions. The dispensas are very valuable
> > because a majority of the time they contain genealogical info past the
> > parents unlike the matrimonios and the información matrimonial. A
> majority
> > of the dispensas are located in the matrimonio records from Guadalajara
> > under Diócesis de Guadalajara because the bishop would have to give the
> > permission and the bishop for the majority of our area was located in
> > Guadalajara.
> >
> >
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405426
> >
>
>
> >
> > There is also a list of dispensas for San Juan de los Lagos. I haven't
> > reviewed these at all so I don't know what they contain.
> >
> >
> https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/show#uri=https%3A//api.familysearch.org/records/waypoint/9405485
> >
> > Armando
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Patty.  So if I understand it correctly, if a dispensa was
> > required
> > > it would be found within the couple's informacion matrimonial.  So when
> I
> > > research the Mexico church records in familysearch and I'm at the place
> > > and date I need, the parish records listings would not have a separate
> > > dispensas category, I simply go to the informacion matrimonial, and if
> a
> > > dispensa was necessary, I would find it there.  All this time, I
> thought
> > > dispensas had to be found in a different, more difficult manner.
> Thanks
> > so
> > > much,  Alice
> > >
> > > --- On Wed, 7/13/11, patty haro wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: patty haro
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Dispensas
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> > > Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:16 PM
> > >
> > >
> > > Alice, las dispensas were documents made in special cases in order lo
> > allow
> > > the forbiden marriages, like if they were cousins or relatives and
> > normally
> > > the marriage were not allow, they ask for a dispensa "perdon" and if
> the
> > > church allow it (normally with some kind of "limosna").
> > >
> > > And the informacion matrimonial is the common info that were require to
> > the
> > > groom and bride and their witnesses, it there were any problem, they
> ask
> > > for
> > > the dispensa to the bishop and incluide it in the informacion
> > matrimonial.
> > >
> > > I hope this help you
> > >
> > > Las dispensas eran los procesos que se realizaban en casos especiales
> > > cuando
> > > los matrimonios estuvieran prohibidos, por ejemplo si eran primos o
> > > parientes, el matrimonio no era permitido y tenian que solicitar una
> > > dispensa o perdon al obispo, este normalmente era otorgado con una
> > limosna
> > > de por medio.
> > >
> > > Las informaciones matrimoniales era la informacion que comunmente se
> > > solicitaba a los contrayentes y a sus testigos, en caso de haber algunn
> > > impedimento, y habia que solicitar una dispensa, esta, se anexaba a la
> > info
> > > matrimonial, o cuando menos la carta otorgando el permiso.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> > >
> > > > Since I'm relatively new at genealogy, I'm willing to take the risk
> of
> > > > sounding totally ignorant...Are dispensas the same as informacion
> > > > matrimonial?  With the group's help, the knowledge I gain will be
> > totally
> > > > worth it.  Thanks so much.
> > > > Alice
> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > >
> > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> > > >
> > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> > > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> >

Armando,
I did not know that Nuevo Leon was at any time under the Dioceses of Michoacan. All the dispensas I've found for Nuevo Leon, prior to 15 of December of 1777 when the "Arzobispado de Monterrey" was established, were in the Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara. I would be very interested in learning which period or locations in Nuevo Leon were under the jurisdiction of Michoacan, as it may be useful to locate certain records for my Nuevo Leon side of my family, that I've been unable to find elsehwere.

Armando,
Yo no sabia que Nuevo Leon estuvo bajo la Diocesis de Michoacan. Todas la dispensa que he encontrado para Nuevo Leon, previas al 15 de diciembre de 1777, cuando se fundo el Arzobispado de Monterrey, estaban en la Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara. Estoy muy interesado en conocer en que periodo, o que localidades de Nuevo Leon estuvieron bajo la jurisdiccion de Michoacan, ya que me seria muy util para buscar ciertos registros de familiares originarios de Nuevo Leon que no he podido localizar aun.

Saludos

Jaime Alvarado

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