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E1b1b1 haplogroup


By makas_nc - Posted on 03 June 2011

anyone in the group have this haplogroup? If so there is a gentleman
that has some info to share. Let me know.

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat [at] h2opodcast [dot] com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://NuestrosRanchos.com (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

Looks like I still have a lot to learn. If by haplogroup you mean, the http://NuestrosRanchos.com (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
> Genealogy), yes I have it.

> Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 18:09:59 -0400
> From: makas [at] nc [dot] rr [dot] com
> To: general [at] nuestrosranchos [dot] com
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] E1b1b1 haplogroup
>
>
> anyone in the group have this haplogroup? If so there is a gentleman
> that has some info to share. Let me know.
>
> joseph
>
> ======================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> NoMeat [at] h2opodcast [dot] com
> http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
> http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
> http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
> http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
> http://NuestrosRanchos.com (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
> Genealogy)
>
>

Hi Joseph, I am E-V13 \ E1b1b1a2 the "Balkan" marker.

Regards,

Robert Gonzalez~

The E haplogroup, like all groups have various sub clades.V22 and V12 being prevelant among people of Jewish decent, E-M81 is called the "Berber Marker" as it is found in overwhelming numbers among those peoples. My marker, V13, dubbed the "Balkan"marker is found in high numbers among Bulgarians,Greeks,Serbs,Romanians and Hungarians,but at the highest numbers in the Albanian community.

Some other notables carrying the V13 marker are former President Lyndon Johnson and George Stepahaopolis.

While family members of Adolf Hitler have tested positive for E, his haplogroup has not been determined, if it has, it has not been made public. If it was found to be V12 or V22, that would point to Jewish ancestory. It is is found to be V13, this could point to decent from a Balkan soldier in Roman service, there are numerous German V13's. Or it could have found it's way from the Balkans to Germany via the Danube. There are V13 hot spots aong the Danube as well as the Black Sea coast into the Ukraine. Two of the possibilities for it's spread into Iberia is via Thracian \Pannonian soldiers who are well documented as being cavalry units in Spain during the Asturian \ Cantabrian wars. The other is via the Visigothic movements out of the Balkans into Spain. The Visigoths were not themselves V13 people, but there is strong evidence to suggest that Dacian and Thracians also made the long trek into SPain with them. The Visigoths were not a homogenous people, rather a confederation of many tribes. The Greeks could have also contributed, but the dates of the samples don't quite match the period in which the Greeks were known to have been in Southern Iberia.

Robert ~

There is a high probability that hitler descends from the rockefeller family. A member of his ancestry became pregnant while working for the family as a maid. She was sent packing when it was discovered that she was pregnant. Her duties involved being isolated from the community so she was made pregnant by a rockefeller or another staff member. But she was also isolated for the most part from other staff. From the info collected it was a very high probadility that it was a rockefeller. Hitler kept this info hidden
R A Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: gandalf3 [dot] 1 [at] netzero [dot] com
Sender: general-bounces [at] lists [dot] nuestrosranchos [dot] comDate: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 22:55:16
To:
Reply-To: general [at] nuestrosranchos [dot] com, gandalf3 [dot] 1 [at] netzero [dot] com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sharing info regarding e1b1b1

The E haplogroup, like all groups have various sub clades.V22 and V12 being prevelant among people of Jewish decent, E-M81 is called the "Berber Marker" as it is found in overwhelming numbers among those peoples. My marker, V13, dubbed the "Balkan"marker is found in high numbers among Bulgarians,Greeks,Serbs,Romanians and Hungarians,but at the highest numbers in the Albanian community.

Some other notables carrying the V13 marker are former President Lyndon Johnson and George Stepahaopolis.

While family members of Adolf Hitler have tested positive for E, his haplogroup has not been determined, if it has, it has not been made public. If it was found to be V12 or V22, that would point to Jewish ancestory. It is is found to be V13, this could point to decent from a Balkan soldier in Roman service, there are numerous German V13's. Or it could have found it's way from the Balkans to Germany via the Danube. There are V13 hot spots aong the Danube as well as the Black Sea coast into the Ukraine. Two of the possibilities for it's spread into Iberia is via Thracian \Pannonian soldiers who are well documented as being cavalry units in Spain during the Asturian \ Cantabrian wars. The other is via the Visigothic movements out of the Balkans into Spain. The Visigoths were not themselves V13 people, but there is strong evidence to suggest that Dacian and Thracians also made the long trek into SPain with them. The Visigoths were not a homogenous people, rather a confederation
of many tribes. The Greeks could have also contributed, but the dates of the samples don't quite match the period in which the Greeks were known to have been in Southern Iberia.

Robert ~

Gossip from Nuestros Ranchos? rockeller?
Facts are Facts
During the Inquisition  Jews were forced to leave Europe on slave ships to the
Americas. They hopped on as doctors for the slaves or slave owners or
as negotiators. Once that slaves were freed in Mexico they had to stop the slave
trade or be incarcerated. It was easier to hide in the hills and mountains of
jalisco then join Napoleon's army to fight for "pro slavery." They continued
underground .
Yes the semetic v13 marker is in most people because our world is mixed. Even
our Native Americans are mixed. Olmec's have the V13 marker........

________________________________
From: "mygenes2000 [at] yahoo [dot] com"
To: general [at] nuestrosranchos [dot] com; gandalf3 [dot] 1 [at] netzero [dot] com
Sent: Sat, June 4, 2011 8:47:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sharing info regarding e1b1b1

There is a high probability that hitler descends from the rockefeller family.  A
member of his ancestry became pregnant while working for the family as a maid.
She was sent packing when it was discovered that she was pregnant. Her duties
involved being isolated from the community so she was made pregnant by a
rockefeller or another staff member. But she was also isolated for the most part
from other staff. From the info collected it was a very high probadility that it
was a rockefeller. Hitler kept this info hidden

R A Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: gandalf3 [dot] 1 [at] netzero [dot] com
Sender: general-bounces [at] lists [dot] nuestrosranchos [dot] comDate: Fri,  3 Jun 2011 22:55:16

To:
Reply-To: general [at] nuestrosranchos [dot] com, gandalf3 [dot] 1 [at] netzero [dot] com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sharing info regarding e1b1b1

The E haplogroup, like all groups have various sub clades.V22 and V12 being
prevelant among people of Jewish decent, E-M81 is called the "Berber Marker" as
it is found in overwhelming numbers among those peoples. My marker, V13, dubbed
the "Balkan"marker is found in high numbers among
Bulgarians,Greeks,Serbs,Romanians and Hungarians,but at the highest numbers in
the Albanian community.

Some other notables carrying the V13 marker are former President Lyndon Johnson
and George Stepahaopolis.

While family members of Adolf Hitler have tested positive for E, his haplogroup
has not been determined, if it has, it has not been made public. If it was found
to be V12 or V22, that would point to Jewish ancestory. It is is found to be
V13, this could point to decent from a Balkan soldier in Roman service, there
are numerous German V13's. Or it could have found it's way from the Balkans to
Germany via the Danube. There are V13 hot spots aong the Danube as well as the
Black Sea coast into the Ukraine. Two of the possibilities for it's spread into
Iberia is via Thracian \Pannonian soldiers who are well documented as being
cavalry units in Spain during the Asturian \ Cantabrian wars. The other is via
the Visigothic movements out of the Balkans into Spain. The Visigoths were not
themselves V13 people, but there is strong evidence to suggest that Dacian and
Thracians also made the long trek into SPain with them. The Visigoths were not a
homogenous people, rather a confederation

of many tribes. The Greeks could have also contributed, but the dates of the
samples don't quite match the period in which the Greeks were known to have been
in Southern Iberia.

Robert ~

Boy, I just don't where to begin in reponse to those last two posts. This sort of things rears it's head everytime the subject of genetics and DNA is brought up. First of all, there is no such thing as a "Jewish Haplogroup" there are "sub clades" or sub groups of each larger haplogroup that are more prevelant among certain ethnic groups.

The only sub clade that can be used to identify members of the Jewish community is the so called "Cohen Marker" J1c3\J-P58.

While there is a good amount of V12 or V22 in the Jewish community, this does not make it a "Jewish" marker any more than R1a, which is also found among people of the Jewish faith.

What needs to be understood here is that Judism is an ideology shared not only by Semetic peoples, but peoples of other genetic backgrounds. It is akin to saying there is a "Catholic" or "Mormon" marker than one could use to determine spiritual affiliation.

E-V13 is very low in the Jewish community, it is also very rare in the middle east and north Africa, found with only 2 percent of the population. In fact, while it is not common there, R1b is higher in these areas than E-V13.

E-V13 is identified with the Cucuteni-Trypillian and Varna cultures which were born in Moldova,the Ukraine, eastern Romania, northern Bulgaria and the shores of the Black Sea.

I have to stress as I have before, Had my ancestors been of Jewish ancestery, I would be proud. But any time a subclade or group other than R1b is discussed those without much knowleadge point to a jewish background, which is in my mind highly insulting to the Jews themselves. It is an oppurtunity for the ignorant to classify people without actually getting to know their background.

As for any nonsense about the Rockefellars and Hitler, I won't waste my time responding.

I will say this, while I don't imbibe in drug use, if I did...I ask you to pass a pipefull of whatever you're smoking this way.

One should define themselves by who you are as a unique entity, not by a DNA marker or culture. We may be of Spanish,Indian and whatever else make up the Mexican culture, but our ancestors were born and lived in far off places many thousands of miles from Mexico...or where we are now.

Robert~

Ruth, those comments were not directed at you, I'm sorry if you thought so.

They were rather directed at the jumbled post regarding Hitler's ancestry. There is just so much that is wrong with that post I can't even begin to explain. Actually, I don't know what makes it relevant.

I understand we are discussing a Haplogroup that he is associated with, but number one , his sub clade has yet to be determined and number two, interesting as it may be, it has little to do with any of us here.

Regards,

Robert~

Exactly,that was my point.

________________________________
From: "gandalf3 [dot] 1 [at] netzero [dot] com"
To: general [at] lists [dot] nuestrosranchos [dot] com
Sent: Sun, June 5, 2011 9:26:07 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ruth M \ E haplogroup

Ruth, those comments were not directed at you, I'm sorry if you thought so.

They were rather directed at the jumbled post regarding Hitler's ancestry. There
is just so much that is wrong with that post I can't even begin to explain.
Actually, I don't know what makes it relevant.

I understand we are discussing a Haplogroup that he is associated with, but
number one , his sub clade has yet to be determined and number two, interesting
as it may be, it has little to do with any of us here.

Regards,

Robert~

I am not sure which are your sources, but it is false that the Inquisition sent Jews to the Americas on slave ships. On the contrary, migration to Americas was subject to Blood Purity Laws (pureza de la sangre), which restricted the passage to Catholics (at least three generations back). As such, jewish and moorish converts were not eligible to travel to the domains of the Spanish crown. My guess is that the inquisition wanted to prevent non-catholics colonies to be established in the huge expanse of the New World. However, regardless of the law, 'conversos' did arrive to the Americas and played a central role in the colonization and conquest of New Mexico, Nuevo Leon and Coahuila, some with Portuguese roots. Alberto Canto, founder of Saltillo and Diego de Montemayor founder of Monterrey, both my direct ancestors were jewish converts, and so was Oñate. How did these and many other Jews manage to come to New Spain? Bribery, special permision form the King, and other means may have play a role. For instance Luis Carvajal y de la Cueva, who belonged to an important jewish family involved in the slave trade, managed to obtain permision from King Phillip II to cross the Atlantic in a vessell where the passengers were exempt from Blood Purity Laws (about 100 families crossed, most f them his or his wife's kin) arriving in 1580. Unfortunately, ten years later, while apparently living christian lives, they were charged by the Inquisition and a large number of members of the Carvajal family were burned at the stake on charges that they practiced the jewish faith. How did Montemayor and Canto eluded charges, no one knows. Luis Carvajal died in Mexico City while in prision, awaiting to respond charges on subjecting the indian population to slavery and of heresy.

Jaime Alvarado

I am sorry, but I strongly disagree with many things that have been written in this forum. It worries me that this becomes a mean to reproduce and spread unsubstained information and myths regarding geneaology and family history. I do not mean this personally to anyone, but I have to say this because it is becoming more and more common in this forum.

In the first place, we must understand that genetic maps only describe the place of origin of the ethnic groups that compose our blood, and not the cultural, religious or social origins. Not by having a genetic imprint from the Balcans, does it mean that those people were jews. It's like that, there is a chance because the balcans were full of jews (in the latest centuries and not the founding ones), but that doesn't mean that every balcanic human being is a jew. Anyway, I don't know much about genetic mapping, and I might be wrong.

The second and most frightening of statements was that of the supposed origins of our northern city founders. I am very dissapointed every time I find one of those statements in a forum of this nature, and I worry for all of the people who take this unsubstained information for granted. The origins of don Diego de Montemayor, founder of Monterrey are very debated, but even the chance of him being a converso is very ulikely. It is true that don Luis Carvajal y de la Cueva was found guilty of secrect practice of judaism, but honestly, do you think that if one Governor of Nuevo León was found guilty of this charge, would the Viceroy take the risk of appointing another converso as the next Governor? By this time, proof of lineage was installed as a "must have" in order to access public charges, don Luis Carvajal didn't pass them, so he ended up in the stake, but then why were they not applyed to don Diego de Montemayor and his son in law Captain don Alberto del Canto, founder and Mayor of Saltillo, even when both of them were once in jail for other charges and were examined by the Inquisition? Perhaps, the answer that none will hear is that they were NOT conversos or new christians, but common and pure blooded (as pure as one can actually be) christians. I'm not saying that they couldn't have had a drop of jewish blook in their veins, only that they were not recent jews or conversos, or at least, they were never recognized as being so. The thing is that it truly sounds more boring and in Mexico, who doesn't want a jew for an ascendant? I mean, it sounds exotic enough for most of us.

I want to put something clear, although the lineage of Alberto del Canto is proven, that one of don Diego de Montemayor is not. Despite this, let's ask ourselves a simple question: where did he live in Spain? Curiosly, don Diego de Montemayor (because he was a Don), was registered as a neighbour of the city of Málaga, in Spain, where the Castle of Montemayor arises. Montemayor was a common shortening of the last name Fernández de Montemayor, which was a branch of the Fernández de Córdoba aristocratic family, which also usually shortened their last name to "de Córdoba", and coincidently owned and lived in the Castle of Montemayor in Málaga, the city where don Diego lived as well. From that castle did the Fernández de Montemayor, also knowned as the " de Montemayor", took their last name. Well, those are curious chances for a cripto-jew who was a conqueror, Founder, and Governor of the Kingdom of Nuevo León (because it was a kingdom), and was examined by the Holy Office and was NEVER found guilty of any charge relating to judaism. But, as I say, his lineage is NOT proven, and we cannot state for sure that he was a part of the Fernández de Córdoba family, but LESS say he was a converso.

Now, with don Alberto del Canto, where do I begin? Don Alberto do Canto e Dias de Vieira, was born in the Ilha Terceira of Açores in Portugal. His birth is well known as a son of dom Sebastião Martins do Canto, from the very noble and powerfull Canto family of Guimarães, also settled in Açores. Not every portuguese is a jew! The last name Canto is a transformation to portuguese from the english family name Kent. Canto originated with Sir John of Kent, son of Sir Edmund of Woodstock Plantagenet, 1st Earl of Kent, and a Margaret Wake,3rd Baroness Wake of Liddell, a legitimate grandson of King Edward I of England and Margaret of France. He was not only a cousin but a brother in law to the the Black Prince, Edward of Woodstock, Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall, and Prince of Aquitaine (father to King Richard II). The Black Prince and Sir John of Kent travelled together to Portugal and Spain to help Pedro "the Cruel" fight Enrique de Trastámara. Sir John stayed in Portugal and married. His descendants portuguized the last name to "do Canto", and it was later castilianized to "del Canto". This information is proven by Dr. Sergio Antonio Corona Páez, Official Chronicler of Torreón, Knight of the Order of San Michael of the Wing (Portuguese). Now, to confirm Alberto del Canto's proven nobility, his family appears in the "Nobiliario de Ilha Terceira", in "Memoria Genealogica da Familia Canto, da Vila de Praia de Terceira", and in the "Nobiliario Tangible" of the Disctrict Archive of Angra. Even portuguese bishop dom João Ribeiro Gaio wrote about his family: "Naturals of Guimaraes, are these gentle (noble) Cantos, now they are a leading family, with the Silvas (very noble and important portuguese last name) mixed, and richer there are none". I could actually go on talking about don Alberto del Canto, but I will stop here because this comment is way too long. Any way, do you still think he was a converso?

I am sorry if I am too rude, I only want to stop myths and this common belief that every northern family was a converso, just because there were some conversos in the north. The presence of crypto-jews in northern Mexico is well known, but it is also well known that they were a minority, and never accesed important public charges. We can NOT say that last names such as Treviño, de la Garza, Benavides, Montemayor, del Canto, Elizondo, Madero, Villarreal, Zambrano, etc, belong to converso families just because they were northern! There are many words for that, but I will stay with slander. Let's not make this forum a media for slander.

Anyway, if anyone wishes to discuss this, maybe we can open a new thread in order to let others debate about the main topic in this thread.

Respectfully,

Daniel Delfin
DDII

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