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Terminology/Place Location

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By omar.codina - Posted on 30 July 2010

I am researching a Mexican marriage record from 1755 in which the groom is described as 'flamenco de Nasion originario de la Ciudad de Dunquerque'. I interpret this as a gypsy from the city of Dunkirk (France). I am not sure what the 'de Nasion' signifies unless it means gypsy nation or of this nation. If anyone has encountered this terminology or has any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate your thoughts.

Omar Codina

Hi Omar

Flamenco de Nasión (should be -nación) simply means -flamenco from birth, born
flamenco.

Regards

Juan Ramón Alvarez

________________________________
From: "omar_codina@msn.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 8:02:03 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location

I am researching a Mexican marriage record from 1755 in which the groom is
described as 'flamenco de Nasion originario de la Ciudad de Dunquerque'.  I
interpret this as a gypsy from the city of Dunkirk (France).  I am not sure what
the 'de Nasion' signifies unless it means gypsy nation or of this nation.  If
anyone has encountered this terminology or has any suggestions, I would greatly
appreciate your thoughts.

Omar Codina

Flamenco can also mean Flemish for those from Flanders near Belgium, France.

2010/7/30 Juan Ramón Alvarez

> Hi Omar
>
> Flamenco de Nasión (should be -nación) simply means -flamenco from birth,
> born
> flamenco.
>
> Regards
>
> Juan Ramón Alvarez
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "omar_codina@msn.com"
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 8:02:03 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
>
> I am researching a Mexican marriage record from 1755 in which the groom is
> described as 'flamenco de Nasion originario de la Ciudad de Dunquerque'. I
> interpret this as a gypsy from the city of Dunkirk (France). I am not sure
> what
> the 'de Nasion' signifies unless it means gypsy nation or of this nation.
> If
> anyone has encountered this terminology or has any suggestions, I would
> greatly
> appreciate your thoughts.
>
> Omar Codina

Hello Omar,
I've offered up this Spanish website to the group before because I've found it helpful, but I've never received any feedback positive or otherwise.  Try ascagen.es go to the upper right archivos/bases de datos.  There there's a Transmeranos de Flandes/Los Flamencos de Transmiera section that might prove helpful.  I don't know enough about the history of Spain and what the Flanders connection is, but that's what they refer to here, when they use "Flamenco".  It's confusing, because more specifically, there's a Cantabria connection which includes Santander and has been a great resource researching my family.  Does this make me "Flamenco"?  I don't know.  I hope you find the site interesting at the very least.    Alice

--- On Fri, 7/30/10, omar_codina@msn.com wrote:

From: omar_codina@msn.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 3:02 PM

I am researching a Mexican marriage record from 1755 in which the groom is described as 'flamenco de Nasion originario de la Ciudad de Dunquerque'.  I interpret this as a gypsy from the city of Dunkirk (France).  I am not sure what the 'de Nasion' signifies unless it means gypsy nation or of this nation.  If anyone has encountered this terminology or has any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate your thoughts.

Omar Codina

There were many Flemish immigrants to Colonial Mexico, I always see Flandes?
Usually once their descendants integrated fully they would automatically assume
the designation of espanol. European=espanol regardless what nation you came
from, as long as you integrated and "castilianized",

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:37:30 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
>
> Flamenco can also mean Flemish for those from Flanders near Belgium, France.
>
> 2010/7/30 Juan Ramón Alvarez
>
> > Hi Omar
> >
> > Flamenco de Nasión (should be -nación) simply means -flamenco from birth,
> > born
> > flamenco.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Juan Ramón Alvarez
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "omar_codina@msn.com"
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> > Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 8:02:03 AM
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
> >
> > I am researching a Mexican marriage record from 1755 in which the groom is
> > described as 'flamenco de Nasion originario de la Ciudad de Dunquerque'. I
> > interpret this as a gypsy from the city of Dunkirk (France). I am not sure
> > what
> > the 'de Nasion' signifies unless it means gypsy nation or of this nation.
> > If
> > anyone has encountered this terminology or has any suggestions, I would
> > greatly
> > appreciate your thoughts.
> >
> > Omar Codina
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> >

It could mean born in or national origin. For some reason, I think
Flamenco COULD mean Fleming, as in, he's Flemish originally from
Dunkirk. But I might be wrong. Marge:)
On Jul 30, 2010, at 10:02 AM, omar_codina@msn.com wrote:

I am researching a Mexican marriage record from 1755 in which the
groom is described as 'flamenco de Nasion originario de la Ciudad de
Dunquerque'. I interpret this as a gypsy from the city of Dunkirk
(France). I am not sure what the 'de Nasion' signifies unless it
means gypsy nation or of this nation. If anyone has encountered this
terminology or has any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate your
thoughts.

Omar Codina

Hi, Omar, most of the definitions I find for "flamenco" refers to Flemish (from Flanders). Gypsy is defined as "gitano", but the dance that the gypsies did was called flamenco also ("dancing for the Flemish").

I have a Flemish ancestor who lived in Mexico City in 1617. His name was Juan Fresqui (Flandes) and he signed his name "Frishz". The name became Fresco, Fresqui, Fresquis, and my most recent ancestors with that name wrote it as Fresquez. Juan Fresqui was a mining engineer from Flanders, and he went to New Mexico in 1625 and settled and married there in Santa Fe.

What was the name of your Flemish ancestor?

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:17:14 -0700
> From: alvarezdmezcala@yahoo.com
> To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
>
> Hi Omar
>
> Flamenco de Nasión (should be -nación) simply means -flamenco from birth, born
> flamenco.
>
> Regards
>
> Juan Ramón Alvarez
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "omar_codina@msn.com"
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 8:02:03 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
>
> I am researching a Mexican marriage record from 1755 in which the groom is
> described as 'flamenco de Nasion originario de la Ciudad de Dunquerque'. I
> interpret this as a gypsy from the city of Dunkirk (France). I am not sure what
> the 'de Nasion' signifies unless it means gypsy nation or of this nation. If
> anyone has encountered this terminology or has any suggestions, I would greatly
> appreciate your thoughts.
>
> Omar Codina

King Charles of Carlos the V was Flemish born in the Flemish city of Ghent in
1500 and although he was King of Spain during the Spanish conquest of the
America's, he spoke very little spanish. His mother was Castillian and his
father was Maximilian I.

Alicia

________________________________
From: Emilie Garcia
To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 12:42:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location

Hi, Omar, most of the definitions I find for "flamenco" refers to Flemish (from
Flanders).  Gypsy is defined as "gitano", but the dance that the gypsies did was
called flamenco also ("dancing for the Flemish"). 

I have a Flemish ancestor who lived in Mexico City in 1617.  His name was Juan
Fresqui (Flandes) and he signed his name "Frishz".  The name became Fresco,
Fresqui, Fresquis, and my most recent ancestors with that name wrote it as
Fresquez.  Juan Fresqui was a mining engineer from Flanders, and he went to New
Mexico in 1625 and settled and married there in Santa Fe.

What was the name of your Flemish ancestor?

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:17:14 -0700
> From: alvarezdmezcala@yahoo.com
> To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
>
> Hi Omar
>
> Flamenco de Nasión (should be -nación) simply means -flamenco from birth, born

> flamenco.
>
> Regards
>
> Juan Ramón Alvarez
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "omar_codina@msn.com"
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 8:02:03 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
>
> I am researching a Mexican marriage record from 1755 in which the groom is
> described as 'flamenco de Nasion originario de la Ciudad de Dunquerque'.  I
> interpret this as a gypsy from the city of Dunkirk (France).  I am not sure
>what
>
> the 'de Nasion' signifies unless it means gypsy nation or of this nation.  If
> anyone has encountered this terminology or has any suggestions, I would greatly
>
> appreciate your thoughts.
>
> Omar Codina

I have read all sorts of books and documents on Carlos V, this is true in the beginning he
did not speak much Spanish. But he soon grew to love his country Spain, so much he would
give up his german posessions and keep his spanish posessions. He gave up his german
posessions to his brother Ferdinand who became the next German Rman Emperor. Interesting enough
Felipe I his father is recognized as the first modern Spanish king, even though he was German
he was crowned Felipe I de Espana with his wife Juana I. Since she was "la loca" and locked away
her husband ruled for some time in the Castilla posesions. While Carlos Grandfather Fernando
II el catolio ruled Aragon and her posessions until his death, where he passed everything to Carlos.
Carlos V or I is the monarch who united his Spain into a country instead of many small kingdoms.

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:57:22 -0700
> From: alliecar@pacbell.net
> To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
>
> King Charles of Carlos the V was Flemish born in the Flemish city of Ghent in
> 1500 and although he was King of Spain during the Spanish conquest of the
> America's, he spoke very little spanish. His mother was Castillian and his
> father was Maximilian I.
>
> Alicia
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Emilie Garcia
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 12:42:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
>
>
> Hi, Omar, most of the definitions I find for "flamenco" refers to Flemish (from
> Flanders). Gypsy is defined as "gitano", but the dance that the gypsies did was
> called flamenco also ("dancing for the Flemish").
>
>
> I have a Flemish ancestor who lived in Mexico City in 1617. His name was Juan
> Fresqui (Flandes) and he signed his name "Frishz". The name became Fresco,
> Fresqui, Fresquis, and my most recent ancestors with that name wrote it as
> Fresquez. Juan Fresqui was a mining engineer from Flanders, and he went to New
> Mexico in 1625 and settled and married there in Santa Fe.
>
> What was the name of your Flemish ancestor?
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> > Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:17:14 -0700
> > From: alvarezdmezcala@yahoo.com
> > To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
> >
> > Hi Omar
> >
> > Flamenco de Nasión (should be -nación) simply means -flamenco from birth, born
>
> > flamenco.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Juan Ramón Alvarez
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "omar_codina@msn.com"
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> > Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 8:02:03 AM
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
> >
> > I am researching a Mexican marriage record from 1755 in which the groom is
> > described as 'flamenco de Nasion originario de la Ciudad de Dunquerque'. I
> > interpret this as a gypsy from the city of Dunkirk (France). I am not sure
> >what
> >
> > the 'de Nasion' signifies unless it means gypsy nation or of this nation. If
> > anyone has encountered this terminology or has any suggestions, I would greatly
> >
> > appreciate your thoughts.
> >
> > Omar Codina
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
>

Daniel,

I enjoyed your remarks. Can you cite a few sources for reading, to learn
more about Carlos V?

Paul Gomez
Rancho Cucamonga, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com] On Behalf Of Daniel
Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 1:26 PM
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location

I have read all sorts of books and documents on Carlos V, this is true in
the beginning he
did not speak much Spanish. But he soon grew to love his country Spain, so
much he would
give up his german posessions and keep his spanish posessions. He gave up
his german
posessions to his brother Ferdinand who became the next German Rman Emperor.
Interesting enough
Felipe I his father is recognized as the first modern Spanish king, even
though he was German
he was crowned Felipe I de Espana with his wife Juana I. Since she was "la
loca" and locked away
her husband ruled for some time in the Castilla posesions. While Carlos
Grandfather Fernando
II el catolio ruled Aragon and her posessions until his death, where he
passed everything to Carlos.
Carlos V or I is the monarch who united his Spain into a country instead of
many small kingdoms.

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:57:22 -0700
> From: alliecar@pacbell.net
> To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
>
> King Charles of Carlos the V was Flemish born in the Flemish city of Ghent
in
> 1500 and although he was King of Spain during the Spanish conquest of the
> America's, he spoke very little spanish. His mother was Castillian and his

> father was Maximilian I.
>
> Alicia
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Emilie Garcia
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 12:42:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
>
>
> Hi, Omar, most of the definitions I find for "flamenco" refers to Flemish
(from
> Flanders). Gypsy is defined as "gitano", but the dance that the gypsies
did was
> called flamenco also ("dancing for the Flemish").
>
>
> I have a Flemish ancestor who lived in Mexico City in 1617. His name was
Juan
> Fresqui (Flandes) and he signed his name "Frishz". The name became
Fresco,
> Fresqui, Fresquis, and my most recent ancestors with that name wrote it as

> Fresquez. Juan Fresqui was a mining engineer from Flanders, and he went
to New
> Mexico in 1625 and settled and married there in Santa Fe.
>
> What was the name of your Flemish ancestor?
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> > Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:17:14 -0700
> > From: alvarezdmezcala@yahoo.com
> > To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
> >
> > Hi Omar
> >
> > Flamenco de Nasión (should be -nación) simply means -flamenco from
birth, born
>
> > flamenco.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Juan Ramón Alvarez
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "omar_codina@msn.com"
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> > Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 8:02:03 AM
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
> >
> > I am researching a Mexican marriage record from 1755 in which the groom
is
> > described as 'flamenco de Nasion originario de la Ciudad de Dunquerque'.
I
> > interpret this as a gypsy from the city of Dunkirk (France). I am not
sure
> >what
> >
> > the 'de Nasion' signifies unless it means gypsy nation or of this
nation. If
> > anyone has encountered this terminology or has any suggestions, I would
greatly
> >
> > appreciate your thoughts.
> >
> > Omar Codina
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
>

Some would be here:

http://www.cervantesvirtual.com/historia/carlosv/bibliografia1.shtml

You can also try google books his life is really of interest to me!

Daniel

> From: paul.gomez@verizon.net
> To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 13:42:39 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
>
> Daniel,
>
> I enjoyed your remarks. Can you cite a few sources for reading, to learn
> more about Carlos V?
>
> Paul Gomez
> Rancho Cucamonga, CA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com
> [mailto:research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com] On Behalf Of Daniel
> Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 1:26 PM
> To: Patty Hoyos
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
>
>
> I have read all sorts of books and documents on Carlos V, this is true in
> the beginning he
> did not speak much Spanish. But he soon grew to love his country Spain, so
> much he would
> give up his german posessions and keep his spanish posessions. He gave up
> his german
> posessions to his brother Ferdinand who became the next German Rman Emperor.
> Interesting enough
> Felipe I his father is recognized as the first modern Spanish king, even
> though he was German
> he was crowned Felipe I de Espana with his wife Juana I. Since she was "la
> loca" and locked away
> her husband ruled for some time in the Castilla posesions. While Carlos
> Grandfather Fernando
> II el catolio ruled Aragon and her posessions until his death, where he
> passed everything to Carlos.
> Carlos V or I is the monarch who united his Spain into a country instead of
> many small kingdoms.
>
>
> Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:57:22 -0700
> > From: alliecar@pacbell.net
> > To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
> >
> > King Charles of Carlos the V was Flemish born in the Flemish city of Ghent
> in
> > 1500 and although he was King of Spain during the Spanish conquest of the
> > America's, he spoke very little spanish. His mother was Castillian and his
>
> > father was Maximilian I.
> >
> > Alicia
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Emilie Garcia
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.com
> > Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 12:42:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
> >
> >
> > Hi, Omar, most of the definitions I find for "flamenco" refers to Flemish
> (from
> > Flanders). Gypsy is defined as "gitano", but the dance that the gypsies
> did was
> > called flamenco also ("dancing for the Flemish").
> >
> >
> > I have a Flemish ancestor who lived in Mexico City in 1617. His name was
> Juan
> > Fresqui (Flandes) and he signed his name "Frishz". The name became
> Fresco,
> > Fresqui, Fresquis, and my most recent ancestors with that name wrote it as
>
> > Fresquez. Juan Fresqui was a mining engineer from Flanders, and he went
> to New
> > Mexico in 1625 and settled and married there in Santa Fe.
> >
> > What was the name of your Flemish ancestor?
> >
> > Emilie
> > Port Orchard, WA
> >
> > > Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:17:14 -0700
> > > From: alvarezdmezcala@yahoo.com
> > > To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
> > >
> > > Hi Omar
> > >
> > > Flamenco de Nasión (should be -nación) simply means -flamenco from
> birth, born
> >
> > > flamenco.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Juan Ramón Alvarez
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: "omar_codina@msn.com"
> > > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> > > Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 8:02:03 AM
> > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology/Place Location
> > >
> > > I am researching a Mexican marriage record from 1755 in which the groom
> is
> > > described as 'flamenco de Nasion originario de la Ciudad de Dunquerque'.
> I
> > > interpret this as a gypsy from the city of Dunkirk (France). I am not
> sure
> > >what
> > >
> > > the 'de Nasion' signifies unless it means gypsy nation or of this
> nation. If
> > > anyone has encountered this terminology or has any suggestions, I would
> greatly
> > >
> > > appreciate your thoughts.
> > >
> > > Omar Codina
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
>

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