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Jewish evidence in Los Altos regarding the Hurtado de Mendozas & Perez-Franco Research Digest, Vol 49, Issue 23

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By mimasep1959 - Posted on 25 February 2010

Hello "My Genes",
Having descended from the Hurtado de Mendozas and the Perez, Franco families from Los Altos, I would be very interested in this documentation. These are my father's lines, and although we have always been very Catholic, I have noticed a few small things that might be Sephardic in general.
I have also read the chapter from "Retonos..." where Mariano dispels Jewish and French lines. In my research, I have never ran across French names, Altenos are a very closed society--remember: is mejor conocido que por conocer--proper Altenas would never run off and marry a French soldier, plus the French were never known to be in our area. I vaguely recall Mariano's references to these people being a very Catholic society (remember la Cristiada), and he did give examples of why this society could not be Jewish. Possibly we were Jewish, but it was too long ago to really matter in everyday life.
At any rate, I would be interested in this documentation you have run across. I do recall that the Perez came from Huelva, Espana, and the former prime minister of Israel, Shimon Perez. That's about it.
Thanks,
Irma Gomez gtz
N. Calif.

1. Re: mixture of clans (mygenes2000@yahoo.com)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:47:51 +0000
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
Message-ID:
<942282224-1266972290-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1609265641-@bda068.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Most of The first families from jalisco were related through the hernandez de hijar and the hurtado de mendoza and there is clear documentation showing at least 4 moor lines and other jewish (marano) lines this is not an opinion, there is clear evidence of this. The mountains where the mendoza family came from was originally a jewish area. Many of The families that the mendoza married into in Castilla also originated from this jewish area. I also believe that the perez that married into the francos to form the perez franco de paredes family were from the jewish perestrello family of portugal this family was originally the Pallestrelli family of Genoa. This last bit of info is the only info here that has not been clearly documented yet and some people disagree with my opinion of where the perez came from.
I repeat, the connection to the hernandez de hijar and mendoza lines to jewish and moorish ancestors have been documented
*************

The very catholic that you state is a clue to altenos being descendents of conversos. Our families made every attempt to not be looked upon aS falling back. This happened while some jewish traditions were kept but looked upon within the family as family traditions.
As to the french line that we have from the rodriguez de hijar line it is because we descend from Robin (Robert or Robinete) Bracamont and he was french.
I am writing on my blackberry and I do not have my data in front of me so I hope I do not lead you astray.
Robin was married to ines mendoza who was from the hurtado de mendoza family. I have worked on both of the ancestral lines and he is definitely french and her family came from an area of spain that definitely had a strong jewish influence. The names of areas have jewish origin if I remember correctly. I have documented the moorish lines.
I have been sidetracked lately but hopefully will be finished with my present projects in time to finish this article on these connections next year.

Many genealogists claimed that the Perestrello family was jewish. I also mistakenly wrote that they were jewish but deeper research proved that this was not true.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Gomezlucero, Irma"
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:58:06
To: 'research@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com'
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish evidence in Los Altos regarding the
Hurtado de Mendozas & Perez-Franco Research Digest, Vol 49, Issue 23

Hello "My Genes",
Having descended from the Hurtado de Mendozas and the Perez, Franco families from Los Altos, I would be very interested in this documentation. These are my father's lines, and although we have always been very Catholic, I have noticed a few small things that might be Sephardic in general.
I have also read the chapter from "Retonos..." where Mariano dispels Jewish and French lines. In my research, I have never ran across French names, Altenos are a very closed society--remember: is mejor conocido que por conocer--proper Altenas would never run off and marry a French soldier, plus the French were never known to be in our area. I vaguely recall Mariano's references to these people being a very Catholic society (remember la Cristiada), and he did give examples of why this society could not be Jewish. Possibly we were Jewish, but it was too long ago to really matter in everyday life.
At any rate, I would be interested in this documentation you have run across. I do recall that the Perez came from Huelva, Espana, and the former prime minister of Israel, Shimon Perez. That's about it.
Thanks,
Irma Gomez gtz
N. Calif.

1. Re: mixture of clans (mygenes2000@yahoo.com)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:47:51 +0000
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
Message-ID:
<942282224-1266972290-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1609265641-@bda068.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Most of The first families from jalisco were related through the hernandez de hijar and the hurtado de mendoza and there is clear documentation showing at least 4 moor lines and other jewish (marano) lines this is not an opinion, there is clear evidence of this. The mountains where the mendoza family came from was originally a jewish area. Many of The families that the mendoza married into in Castilla also originated from this jewish area. I also believe that the perez that married into the francos to form the perez franco de paredes family were from the jewish perestrello family of portugal this family was originally the Pallestrelli family of Genoa. This last bit of info is the only info here that has not been clearly documented yet and some people disagree with my opinion of where the perez came from.
I repeat, the connection to the hernandez de hijar and mendoza lines to jewish and moorish ancestors have been documented
*************

What part of Los Altos are you from? The name of your pueblo? Los Altos is referred to as the "The Highlands" the pueblos in the mountaineous areas of Jalisco.

Some people in our region probably have Jewish ancestry. One has to research and find out. But there are some traditional things we have in Jalisco that have Jewish origin.

"La Capirotada" http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/384/capirotada.jpg

"Semas" http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2840/comidasemas.jpg

Another thing is the style of our houses in the pueblos in the highlands of Jalisco. Stone blocked shaped houses, fences that are slabs of stone piled on top of one another. The elderly ladies that were those long black cloaks with white spots draped over the heads. Makes one wonder?

When I see movies about ancient Jerusalum, Israel.....kind of has a resemblance to the styles of our pueblos.

Most of family is from valle de gpe. Tepa and Jalos. My great uncle, may he rest in peace, is Dr Rito Romo Franco.
Dr rito romo franco and his brother, my maternal grandfather, hermenegildo romo franco were 3rd cousins (3 times) of santo toribio romo gonzalez.
------Original Message------
From: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
ReplyTo: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish evidence in Los Altos
Sent: Feb 25, 2010 6:37 PM

What part of Los Altos are you from? The name of your pueblo? Los Altos is referred to as the "The Highlands" the pueblos in the mountaineous areas of Jalisco.

People in our region probably have Jewish ancestry. One has to research and find out. But there are some traditional things we have in Jalisco that have Jewish origin.

"La Capirotada" http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/384/capirotada.jpg

"Semas" http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2840/comidasemas.jpg

Another thing is the style of our houses in the pueblos in the highlands of Jalisco. Stone blocked shaped houses, fences that are slabs of stone piled on top of one another. The elderly ladies that were those long black cloaks with white spots draped over the heads. Makes one wonder?

When I see movies about ancient Jerusalum, Israel.....kind of has a resemblance to the styles of our pueblos.

There are stone blocked shaped houses and fences made of slabs of stone all
over the world. They don't point to Jewish origins at all, unless the whole
ancient world was Jewish. Apart from that, customs can be adopted by people
that aren't related. For example, the Normans spoke French but were actually
descendants of Vikings. The Irish spoke Gaelic but are relatives of the
Basque, proven so with DNA. The rodeo is from Mexico, but practiced by the
world now. The whole world plays an English sport, football. Therefore,
without having documentation or science to prove the source means it is only
speculation at the time and doesn't prove anything. Meaning that Los Altos
may eat capirotada and semas due to influence from other areas, and not
because of a converso population. For example mole, all of Mexico eats it,
but it was invented in Puebla by a nun. Does that mean all Mexicans have
poblanos ancestry? The answer is no. Therefore, Is there proof that
capirotada and semas are eaten in Jalisco because of a large converso
population wanting to practice Judaism?

I am in no way against finding Jewish roots but I hope that statements that
try to prove or disprove a link are fully evaluated.

Saludos,
Armando

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 8:37 PM, wrote:

> What part of Los Altos are you from? The name of your pueblo? Los Altos is
> referred to as the "The Highlands" the pueblos in the mountaineous areas of
> Jalisco.
>
> People in our region probably have Jewish ancestry. One has to research
> and find out. But there are some traditional things we have in Jalisco that
> have Jewish origin.
>
> "La Capirotada" http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/384/capirotada.jpg
>
> "Semas" http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2840/comidasemas.jpg
>
> Another thing is the style of our houses in the pueblos in the highlands of
> Jalisco. Stone blocked shaped houses, fences that are slabs of stone piled
> on top of one another. The elderly ladies that were those long black cloaks
> with white spots draped over the heads. Makes one wonder?
>
> When I see movies about ancient Jerusalum, Israel.....kind of has a
> resemblance to the styles of our pueblos.

My research has to do with tracing ancestors. I have not based it on capirotada. My research has led to my relatives intermarrying over and over again with marriage to someone from out of the family circle once in a blue moon. The thing is that my research is into all my ancestors and not just the ones taditionally looked at by genealogist. In our culture the jews, moors, indian, and black lines have sometimes been lines that people wanted to hide.
I believed, in the beginning that I would have half indian And half spanish ancestors. I wAs surprised to find ancestors that were over 80 per cent white 1 percent black less than 10 Per cent indian. It is difficult for anyone to do a mexican genealogy and claim to be 100 percent white for at least two reasons
1 espanol meant you were at least 7/8 white.
2. Most of my ancestors, the first settlers, that originally came over were not themselves 100 per cent white
The closeset mexican genealogy that comes to 100 per cent white is my paternal grandmother lucila de la torre rodriguez de hijar and she had the lightest skin coloring that I have ever seen except for albinos. My father inherited her skin color even though his father was about 2 per cent black
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Armando Antuñano
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:26:39
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish evidence in Los Altos

There are stone blocked shaped houses and fences made of slabs of stone all
over the world. They don't point to Jewish origins at all, unless the whole
ancient world was Jewish. Apart from that, customs can be adopted by people
that aren't related. For example, the Normans spoke French but were actually
descendants of Vikings. The Irish spoke Gaelic but are relatives of the
Basque, proven so with DNA. The rodeo is from Mexico, but practiced by the
world now. The whole world plays an English sport, football. Therefore,
without having documentation or science to prove the source means it is only
speculation at the time and doesn't prove anything. Meaning that Los Altos
may eat capirotada and semas due to influence from other areas, and not
because of a converso population. For example mole, all of Mexico eats it,
but it was invented in Puebla by a nun. Does that mean all Mexicans have
poblanos ancestry? The answer is no. Therefore, Is there proof that
capirotada and semas are eaten in Jalisco because of a large converso
population wanting to practice Judaism?

I am in no way against finding Jewish roots but I hope that statements that
try to prove or disprove a link are fully evaluated.

Saludos,
Armando

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 8:37 PM, wrote:

> What part of Los Altos are you from? The name of your pueblo? Los Altos is
> referred to as the "The Highlands" the pueblos in the mountaineous areas of
> Jalisco.
>
> People in our region probably have Jewish ancestry. One has to research
> and find out. But there are some traditional things we have in Jalisco that
> have Jewish origin.
>
> "La Capirotada" http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/384/capirotada.jpg
>
> "Semas" http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2840/comidasemas.jpg
>
> Another thing is the style of our houses in the pueblos in the highlands of
> Jalisco. Stone blocked shaped houses, fences that are slabs of stone piled
> on top of one another. The elderly ladies that were those long black cloaks
> with white spots draped over the heads. Makes one wonder?
>
> When I see movies about ancient Jerusalum, Israel.....kind of has a
> resemblance to the styles of our pueblos.

Tu si sabes  !!!!!!

Ruben Casillas M.

--- El jue 25-feb-10, Armando Antuñano escribió:

De:: Armando Antuñano
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish evidence in Los Altos
A: research@nuestrosranchos.com
Fecha: jueves, 25 de febrero de 2010, 22:26

There are stone blocked shaped houses and fences made of slabs of stone all
over the world. They don't point to Jewish origins at all, unless the whole
ancient world was Jewish. Apart from that, customs can be adopted by people
that aren't related. For example, the Normans spoke French but were actually
descendants of Vikings. The Irish spoke Gaelic but are relatives of the
Basque, proven so with DNA. The rodeo is from Mexico, but practiced by the
world now. The whole world plays an English sport, football. Therefore,
without having documentation or science to prove the source means it is only
speculation at the time and doesn't prove anything. Meaning that Los Altos
may eat capirotada and semas due to influence from other areas, and not
because of a converso population. For example mole, all of Mexico eats it,
but it was invented in Puebla by a nun. Does that mean all Mexicans have
poblanos ancestry? The answer is no. Therefore, Is there proof that
capirotada and semas are eaten in Jalisco because of a large converso
population wanting to practice Judaism?

I am in no way against finding Jewish roots but I hope that statements that
try to prove or disprove a link are fully evaluated.

Saludos,
Armando

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 8:37 PM, wrote:

> What part of Los Altos are you from? The name of your pueblo?  Los Altos is
> referred to as the "The Highlands" the pueblos in the mountaineous areas of
> Jalisco.
>
> People in our region probably have Jewish ancestry.  One has to research
> and find out. But there are some traditional things we have in Jalisco that
> have Jewish origin.
>
> "La Capirotada"  http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/384/capirotada.jpg
>
> "Semas"   http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2840/comidasemas.jpg
>
> Another thing is the style of our houses in the pueblos in the highlands of
> Jalisco.  Stone blocked shaped houses,  fences that are slabs of stone piled
> on top of one another.  The elderly ladies that were those long black cloaks
> with white spots draped over the heads.  Makes one wonder?
>
> When I see movies about ancient Jerusalum, Israel.....kind of has a
> resemblance to the styles of our pueblos.

En todfo el mundo hay tradiciónes judias, todo el mundo es judio ?

Ruben Casillas M.

--- El jue 25-feb-10, zacatecano020@hotmail.com escribió:

De:: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish evidence in Los Altos
A: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Fecha: jueves, 25 de febrero de 2010, 20:37

What part of Los Altos are you from? The name of your pueblo?  Los Altos is referred to as the "The Highlands" the pueblos in the mountaineous areas of Jalisco.

People in our region probably have Jewish ancestry.  One has to research and find out. But there are some traditional things we have in Jalisco that have Jewish origin.

"La Capirotada"  http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/384/capirotada.jpg

"Semas"   http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2840/comidasemas.jpg

Another thing is the style of our houses in the pueblos in the highlands of Jalisco.  Stone blocked shaped houses,  fences that are slabs of stone piled on top of one another.  The elderly ladies that were those long black cloaks with white spots draped over the heads.  Makes one wonder?

When I see movies about ancient Jerusalum, Israel.....kind of has a resemblance to the styles of our pueblos.

My family comes from Los Altos as well, just outside of Tepatitlan, San Jose De Bazarte. First of all,let me say that I'd be proud of my ancestors regardless of background. All of these so called Jewish traits,such as intermarriage within the family, fundemental Catholosism and ladies in " long black cloaks" seem pretty mundane and not evident of any real Jewish tradition, they could all be assigned to any almost European country, especailly in the Mediterranean. The Hapsburg (sp?) rulers of Spain were inbred to a scary degree, they were not Jewish...intermarriage is to keep a blood line "pure" and not only a Jewish trait. don't subscribe to any such notion, I think it is repulsive, and I'm not saying Altenos are descendents of any royal line,just pointing out what history has taught us.

I'm pretty active in the Genetic community and it's laughable to me that anytime a Y DNA marker other than the "Atlantic" R1b marker is mentioned it's automatically assumed to be Moorish or Jewish ( by those who don't know any better). There is indeed a marker called a "Cohen \ Konhanim" which is associated with the haplogroup J1e and J2a which is a good indicator of Jewish ancestory,other than that there is no "Jewish" marker. DNA predates Judaism,as well as Islam or Christianity by thousands of years...it's like saying there is a Democrat or Repulican marker.

There are traditional "Sephardos' in the Southwest, almost exclusivley in New Mexico and they have very distinct customs that support their Jewish ancestory,I'm not aware of these being apparant in anything I've researched concerning Los Altos.

I'm not saying that there aren't Altenos of Jewsih decent,not at all...what I'm saying is before we go so far as to speak with any certainty about any situation, we should have the best sources we can to support our theory.

Robert~

Well the present day Jewish Community in Jalisco:

vivelacomunidad.com

Many of us from los altos descend from king enrique II of spain and his brothers many times over. He and his bothers had descended form jews on his mothers side. I have also found that they descend from moors through at least 4 separate lines.
I also descend from an ancestor of many altenos that was put on trial for continuing to practice judaism on saturdays even though he practiced catholicism on The other 6 days of the week. The trial and conviction is a matter of public record.
Another family with converso as ancestors are the perez franco de paredes whom all oveR los altos and this is from both perez anD franco ancestors.
As to the moor lines I will be providing accurate documentaion of these lines in an essay / article that I am writing.
I have not used dna or clothing or food but plain genealogical/historical research.

------Original Message------
From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
ReplyTo: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish evidence in Los Altos
Sent: Feb 26, 2010 11:13 AM

My family comes from Los Altos as well, just outside of Tepatitlan, San Jose De Bazarte. First of all,let me say that I'd be proud of my ancestors regardless of background. All of these so called Jewish traits,such as intermarriage within the family, fundemental Catholosism and ladies in " long black cloaks" seem pretty mundane and not evident of any real Jewish tradition, they could all be assigned to any almost European country, especailly in the Mediterranen. The Hapsburg (sp?) rulers of Spain were inbred to a scary degree, they were not Jewish...intermarriage is to keep a blood line "pure" and not only a Jewish trait. don't subscribe to any such notion, I think it is repulsive, and I'm not saying Altenos are descendents of any royal line,just pointing out what history has taught us.

I'm pretty active in the Genetic community and it's laughable to me that anytime a Y DNA marker other than the "Atlantic" R1b marker is mentioned it's automatically assumed to be Moorish or Jewish ( by those who don't know any better). There is indeed a marker called a "Cohen \ Konhanim" which is associated with the haplogroup J1e and J2a which is a good indicator of Jewish ancestory,other than that there is no "Jewish" marker. DNA predates Judaism,as well as Islam or Christianity by thousands of years...it's like saying there is a Democrat or Repulican marker.

There are traditional "Sephardos' in the Southwest, almost exclusivley in New Mexico and they have very distinct customs that support their Jewish ancestory,I'm not aware of these being apparant in anything I've researched concerning Los Altos.

I'm not saying that there aren't Altenos of Jewsih decent,not at all...what I'm saying is before we go so far as to speak with any certainty about any situation, we should have the best sources we can to support our theory.

Robert~

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