You are hereForums / Genealogy Research / Polonia Torres Y Nicolas Ramirez -15th century

Polonia Torres Y Nicolas Ramirez -15th century

warning: Creating default object from empty value in /home/lafamilia/nuestrosranchos.com/sites/all/modules/mailhandler/mailhandler.module on line 123.

By miri12 - Posted on 04 August 2009

Hello-

I have beenr researching these ancestors and know that many of us from Aguascalientes come from them. It seems that no one has any info on them besides an IGI File (posted below). Does anyone have this file in their records? I just wanted to ask before I ordered it. Also I think that there may be some possibility that Polonia Torres is the Daughter of Polonia Gamboa and Juan de La Torre from Colima Mexico.

but would like to locate the birth record of Polonia, or marriage record of her to Nicolas Ramirez or the marriage record of one of her children, Agueda Torres, apolonia torres,. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
Mexico
Search Results | Download | Print

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

POLONIA TORRES Pedigree
Female Family

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: About 1569 Lagos De Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico

Christening:
Death:
Burial:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: NICOLAS RAMIREZ Family
Marriage: 1590

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Family group record submitted by a member of the LDS Church. The record includes the submitter's name and address and names and relationships of family members. The address may be outdated. Some information is estimated. To find the record on the film, you must know the batch and sheet number.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch Number: F867345
Sheet: 002
Source Call No.: 1553960 Type: Film

Yo tengo noticia de un hijo de Juan de la Torre y Polonia Gamboa, llamado Alonso de la Torre. ´

También me gustaría saber quienes son los padres de Nicolás Ramírez y Polonia de Torres, pues también son mis ancestros y de mucho mas personas de los Altos de Jalisco.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
Feliz aniversario Messenger!
www.aniversariomessenger.com.mx

Se me olvidaba decir lo siguiente:

Juan de la Torre, era natural de la Villa de Palma, en Córdoba, España, hijo de Rodrigo Alonso y Francisca de la Torre, pasó a la Nueva España aprox. en 1532, junto con dos hermanas que fueron casadas, Leonor de la Torre y otra que no se el nombre.

Casó con Polonia de Gamboa, con quien tuvo por hijos a Alonso de la Torre, María de la Torre mujer de Fernando Zarfate, y Hernando de Gamboa.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
> From: ferraristeph@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:17:29 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Polonia Torres Y Nicolas Ramirez -15th century
>
> Hello-
>
> I have beenr researching these ancestors and know that many of us from Aguascalientes come from them. It seems that no one has any info on them besides an IGI File (posted below). Does anyone have this file in their records? I just wanted to ask before I ordered it. Also I think that there may be some possibility that Polonia Torres is the Daughter of Polonia Gamboa and Juan de La Torre from Colima Mexico.
>
>
> but would like to locate the birth record of Polonia, or marriage record of her to Nicolas Ramirez or the marriage record of one of her children, Agueda Torres, apolonia torres,. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
> Mexico
> Search Results | Download | Print
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> POLONIA TORRES Pedigree
> Female Family
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Event(s):
> Birth: About 1569 Lagos De Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico
>
> Christening:
> Death:
> Burial:
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Marriages:
> Spouse: NICOLAS RAMIREZ Family
> Marriage: 1590
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Messages:
> Family group record submitted by a member of the LDS Church. The record includes the submitter's name and address and names and relationships of family members. The address may be outdated. Some information is estimated. To find the record on the film, you must know the batch and sheet number.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Source Information:
> Batch Number: F867345
> Sheet: 002
> Source Call No.: 1553960 Type: Film
>
>

Hola, No hablo español que bien lo siento tan si soy confuso. Aquí está un acoplamiento a un libro con la información sobre Polonia Gamboa, su marido, y niños, pero no mencionan Polonia Torres. Tengo una sensación que están conectados pero que no pueden traducir estas escrituras. También, he estado intentando encontrar que una lista de familias de fundación de Lagos De Moreno b/c Polonia Torres es de ellas.

http://books.google.com/books?id=AdIs_kXt8zcC&pg=PA160&dq=polonia+gamboa#v=twopage&q=torre&f=false

Hi Steph:

The original founders of Lagos were families from Teocaltiche. You might
want to look in that area also.

Hola Stephanie: Los fundadores de Lagos fueron familias de Teocaltiche,
considera dirigir tu busqueda hacia esa area tambien.

John Gonzalez

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 06:00
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Polonia Torres Y Nicolas Ramirez -15th century

>
>
> Hola, No hablo español que bien lo siento tan si soy confuso. Aquí está un
> acoplamiento a un libro con la información sobre Polonia Gamboa, su
> marido, y niños, pero no mencionan Polonia Torres. Tengo una sensación que
> están conectados pero que no pueden traducir estas escrituras. También, he
> estado intentando encontrar que una lista de familias de fundación de
> Lagos De Moreno b/c Polonia Torres es de ellas.

Hello Stephanie,

I don't know who the parents of Nicolás Ramírez or Polonia de Torres were,
but have some other information about this family that may be of interest to
you. Nicolás Ramírez was the owner of "Hacienda de las Peñuelas" and one of
the founders of Aguascalientes in 1575. His name is in founder's square in
the historical district of Aguascalientes. Both Nicolás and Polonia were
originally from Santa María de los Lagos, Jalisco, but lived in
Aguascalientes.

Bill Figueroa

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Gonzalez" <1gnzlz@verizon.net>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Polonia Torres Y Nicolas
Ramirez -15thcentury

> Hi Steph:
>
> The original founders of Lagos were families from Teocaltiche. You might
> want to look in that area also.
>
> Hola Stephanie: Los fundadores de Lagos fueron familias de Teocaltiche,
> considera dirigir tu busqueda hacia esa area tambien.
>
> John Gonzalez
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 06:00
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Polonia Torres Y Nicolas Ramirez -15th century
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hola, No hablo español que bien lo siento tan si soy confuso. Aquí está
>> un acoplamiento a un libro con la información sobre Polonia Gamboa, su
>> marido, y niños, pero no mencionan Polonia Torres. Tengo una sensación
>> que están conectados pero que no pueden traducir estas escrituras.
>> También, he estado intentando encontrar que una lista de familias de
>> fundación de Lagos De Moreno b/c Polonia Torres es de ellas.
>

H- John-

I have looked at the Historia de Teocaltiche but there is no specefic list of the families who found it. I then looked at the Chancerry de Vallodolid to see if there is a list of families under the founder Hernando Martel and still nothing. This is why I looked in Colima Mexico and found the Polonia Gamboa married to Juan de La torre. If I have missed something that you know of in the resources above, please let me know. Also , do you have any contact info for the Cronista of Lagos de Moreon or Teocaltiche? Hope your research is going well.

Thanks!

Hi Bill, good to hear from you :)

Thanks for the info on Nicolas because it confirms what I have. Do you think there are any papers from the Hacienda de las Peñuelas which would list his wife and her parents or thier marriage? Any leads for that would be great. Also,as I told, John Gonzalez, I have looked in the Chancerry de Vallodolid with not luck.

thanks again for your time,

Hi Steph:

The idea is that if you are researching a family from Lagos and come to a
brick wall, try researching the same family name, but in Teocaltiche. I
don't know if there is a list of the families, who left to settle in Lagos,
but you could look for the earliest church records for Lagos.

Below you mentioned that : "I have looked at the history of Teocaltiche but
there is no specific list of the families who found it"

You are not looking for the families who founded Teocaltiche, you want the
families FROM Teocaltiche who founded Lagos.
John Gonzalez

> H- John-
>
> I have looked at the Historia de Teocaltiche but there is no specefic list
> of the families who found it...

I found a website long time ago about the history of Nueva Galicia, I think it was a university or something and there was a section about the foundation of Lagos and the many families that arrived in the late 1500s from teocaltiche. Ill try to look for it, -Daniel

_________________________________________________________________

Stephanie,

In his book "Aguascalientes y su región de influencia hasta 1810 - Sociedad y Política" historian José Antonio Gutiérrez Gutiérrez mentions that before the founding of Aguascalientes in 1575, Nicolás Ramírez, Cristobal de Mata, Francisco Gómez and Menzo López had been granted some land, which I suppose is where "Hacienda de las Peñuelas" is located. The earliest church records of Aguascalientes start in the early 1600s, so none of the baptismal records of the children of Nicolás Ramírez and Polonia de Torres are in the books. We know they had at least nine children, all born in Aguascalientes. Some of them used the surname Tavera, so there is one clue about their grandparents' surname. As you probably know, using the surname of a grandparent was not uncommon in those days. There are marriage records from Aguascalientes where there is information about some of their children. For example the marriage of their daughter María de Tavera to Phelipe Macías Valadez on 01 July 1618 reads as follows:

"El 1 de julio de 1618 contrajo matrimonio Phelipe Macías Valadés, hijo de Alonso Macías Valadés y de María de Retamosa, con María de Tavera, hija de Nicolás Ramírez y de Polonia de Torres, vecinos de Aguascalientes. Testigos Alonso Macías y Francisco Macías. Veláronse el 3 de octubre de 1618. Fueron padrinos María de Torres y Antonio Tavera, hermanos de la pretensa."

Some of the children were married at the private chapel in Las Peñuelas, like Mariana de Tavera who married Gaspar Macías Valadez on 06 March 1622. Their marriage record reads as follows:

"El 6 de marzo de 1612, en la Estancia de las Peñuelas de Nicolás Ramírez, contrajeron matrimonio Gaspar Macías y Mariana de Torres, siendo testigos Alonso Macías, y los mellizos y Nicolás Ramírez."

Another daughter, Agueda de Torres y Tavera, married Hernando de Valdivia at the same chapel on 26 Jan 1622. Hernando was born at Villa de Serena, Extremadura, Reynos de Castilla.

I suppose the land grants are archived at the "Archivo de Tierras y Aguas" which is now part of the "Archivo Histórico de Jalisco". Not to discourage you, but I have been through hundreds of documents from Tierras y Aguas and have never seen anything related to Nicolás Ramírez or Polonia de Torres.

I visited the ex-Hacienda de las Peñuelas in 2008, which is less than one mile from the airport. Interesting place. I was lucky to be there while a crew was filming a movie and was allowed to go in. I guess the guard thought I was a member of the crew. :-) Unfortunately, there are no documents stored there.

Bill Figueroa

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Navigation

Who's online

There are currently 1 user and 3 guests online.

Online users

  • arturoramos

Languages