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Death Certificate Help Request

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By makas_nc - Posted on 08 May 2008

Hi,

I was hoping some could look at this record and give me your opinion of
a couple of things I don't understand:

http://nuestrafamiliaunida.com/ranchos/PedroTorresDeath1158292v02p28(Feb1822)Zoom.jpg

1) What is the word right before this phrase: "De la Villa de
Aguascalientes"?

2) What do ALL the abbreviations at the top left mean?

3) What is the second surname of Maria Ynes de Flores y ???Liras??? I'm
in doubt that this is an "L" since the "L" in Legitimo looks so
different. Also I'm thinking that the last letter really might be an "r"
instead of an "s" since it looks similar to the other "r's" in the
document.

4) Does anyone doing research in Aguas have a Simon Torres married to an
Ynes de Flores y ???

thanks for your help,

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://NuestrosRanchos.com (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

1) The word before that phrase is "oriundo", meaning "from" or "born in"

3) Looks like Lisar (maybe short for Lisarde)

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com] En nombre de Joseph
Puentes
Enviado el: Thursday, May 08, 2008 2:26 PM
Para: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Death Certificate Help Request

Hi,

I was hoping some could look at this record and give me your opinion of
a couple of things I don't understand:

http://nuestrafamiliaunida.com/ranchos/PedroTorresDeath1158292v02p28(Feb1822
)Zoom.jpg

1) What is the word right before this phrase: "De la Villa de
Aguascalientes"?

2) What do ALL the abbreviations at the top left mean?

3) What is the second surname of Maria Ynes de Flores y ???Liras??? I'm
in doubt that this is an "L" since the "L" in Legitimo looks so
different. Also I'm thinking that the last letter really might be an "r"
instead of an "s" since it looks similar to the other "r's" in the
document.

4) Does anyone doing research in Aguas have a Simon Torres married to an
Ynes de Flores y ???

thanks for your help,

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://NuestrosRanchos.com (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

Hi Joseph:

Here's my 2 cents worth. I am sure somebody else will come up with the rest
of the information.

1- It says: " Oriundo de la villa de Aguascalientes" ( native of Ags.)

2-It looks like: :Uno de los Españoles ----- anteriormente vecino?" It is
posing a question.

3- If you look 4 lines above this line you'll see that it says:" vecino DE
esta Jurisdiccion" Therefore, the name I think is: "Maria de Flores DE ????

What to you looks like a "y" is actually the word: "de"

4- At the bottom of the document it says: " Para que conste lo firme con el
señor cura" If you look at the first letter of the word "señor" it has to
be an "s" and it looks very similiar to the first letter of her last name,
which I can't really make out what it is. Like you say , the last letter
could be an "r" or an "s" . to me it looks more like an "s"

I hope this will help.

John Gonzalez.

>> 1) What is the word right before this phrase: "De la Villa de
> Aguascalientes"?
>
> 2) What do ALL the abbreviations at the top left mean?
>
> 3) What is the second surname of Maria Ynes de Flores y ???Liras??? I'm in
> doubt that this is an "L" since the "L" in Legitimo looks so different.
> Also I'm thinking that the last letter really might be an "r" instead of
> an "s" since it looks similar to the other "r's" in the document.

Joseph,

The following is a transcription of your document. The question-marks
indicate words are that are hard to read on the microfilm. I corrected the
priest's misspellings like "beinte", "cepultura", "cegundas" etc.

Pedro de la Torre, Español
[?] vecino
--------------------------------
Alta 5 pesos
A.E.A.

En once [?] de febrero de ochocientos veinte y dos
yo, el Br. D. Fausto Antonio Velis, dí sepul-
tura Eclesiástica con entierro alto y fábrica de
cinco pesos al Cuerpo del adulto Pedro de la
Torre, Español oriundo de la Villa de Aguas
Calientes y vecino de esta Jurisdicción de Co-
lotlán, ha dos años, marido que fue de se-
gundas nupcias de María Josefa Ramí-
rez, é hijo legítimo de Simón de la Torre
y María Inés Flores de Lisar [?]: murió de
cólico é hizo Testamento habiendo recibido
los Sacramentos necesarios, y para que conste
lo firmé con el Señor Cura

Ignacio Suarez Fausto Antonio Velis

"oriundo" means "originario de". A.E.A could be an abbreviation of "Archivo
Eclesiástico Arzobispal" [?] or something like that. I believe Lisar is
written with a capital "L" while "legítimo" is written with low case "l".

Hope this helps,

Bill Figueroa

Joseph,

I agree with what Bill Figueroa wrote. However, I believe the date he was unsure of is "dose", the twelfth. The abbreviation Bill isn't sure of is for "Adulto" abbreviated with the capital "A" and "to" above the line. I think that the second surname is "Liras" rather than "Lisar". Not to argue w/Bill... just a different perspective.

David Delgado, Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: Joseph Puentes
>Sent: May 8, 2008 12:25 PM
>To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Death Certificate Help Request
>
>
>Hi,
>
>I was hoping some could look at this record and give me your opinion of
>a couple of things I don't understand:
>
>http://nuestrafamiliaunida.com/ranchos/PedroTorresDeath1158292v02p28(Feb1822)Zoom.jpg
>
>1) What is the word right before this phrase: "De la Villa de
>Aguascalientes"?
>
>2) What do ALL the abbreviations at the top left mean?
>
>3) What is the second surname of Maria Ynes de Flores y ???Liras??? I'm
>in doubt that this is an "L" since the "L" in Legitimo looks so
>different. Also I'm thinking that the last letter really might be an "r"
>instead of an "s" since it looks similar to the other "r's" in the
>document.
>
>4) Does anyone doing research in Aguas have a Simon Torres married to an
>Ynes de Flores y ???
>
>thanks for your help,
>
>joseph
>
>====================
>
>Joseph Puentes
>http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
>http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
>http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
>http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
>http://NuestrosRanchos.com (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
>Genealogy)
>
>
>

Joseph,
1.I vote for oriundo (native).
3.I vote Siras.

Goog Luck Mike.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Puentes"
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 2:25 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Death Certificate Help Request

>
> Hi,
>
> I was hoping some could look at this record and give me your opinion of a
> couple of things I don't understand:
>
> http://nuestrafamiliaunida.com/ranchos/PedroTorresDeath1158292v02p28(Feb1822)Zoom.jpg
>
> 1) What is the word right before this phrase: "De la Villa de
> Aguascalientes"?
>
> 2) What do ALL the abbreviations at the top left mean?
>
> 3) What is the second surname of Maria Ynes de Flores y ???Liras??? I'm in
> doubt that this is an "L" since the "L" in Legitimo looks so different.
> Also I'm thinking that the last letter really might be an "r" instead of
> an "s" since it looks similar to the other "r's" in the document.
>
> 4) Does anyone doing research in Aguas have a Simon Torres married to an
> Ynes de Flores y ???
>
> thanks for your help,
>
> joseph
>
> ====================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
> http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
> http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
> http://NuestrosRanchos.com (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
> Genealogy)
>
>
>

Thanks much to the five of you for your help with this death cert. I
have doubt about this record and will go to the FHC and make some copies
of surrounding records to get a better collection of this scribes
handwriting.

This is something I should have done from the beginning and something
I'd like to share with others just starting out. When you have a record
that is hard to decipher because may the opposite page had too much ink
or the ink faded or just poor penmenship go to other records around your
target record and make several copies of them and see if you can find
words that you are confident you have the meaning of and see if those
letters "appear" to be the same in the word or words you have in question.

thanks again to Rick, John, Bill, David and Mike for your great help
with this record. I still have lingering doubts about that being an "L"
in Lisar or Liras since it looks like part of the letter or word is
missing. I punched in Liras and got very few hits on the LDS
familysearch.org site and none for Lisar. I know that is not conclusive
but it puts doubt in my mind about the Lisar option. I'm doubting that
it is an "S" also since the "S's" in other words seem to NOT flow into
the next letter (see Simon, Sacramentos, Sinco) but the Letter at the
beginning of the surname in question does flow into the next letter.
I'll need to get more copies of this persons handwriting to find more
clues. thanks

thanks again you all,

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://NuestrosRanchos.com (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

Mike Gordoa wrote:
> Joseph,
> 1.I vote for oriundo (native).
> 3.I vote Siras.
>
> Goog Luck Mike.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Puentes"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 2:25 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Death Certificate Help Request
>
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I was hoping some could look at this record and give me your opinion
>> of a couple of things I don't understand:
>>
>> http://nuestrafamiliaunida.com/ranchos/PedroTorresDeath1158292v02p28(Feb1822)Zoom.jpg
>>
>>
>> 1) What is the word right before this phrase: "De la Villa de
>> Aguascalientes"?
>>
>> 2) What do ALL the abbreviations at the top left mean?
>>
>> 3) What is the second surname of Maria Ynes de Flores y ???Liras???
>> I'm in doubt that this is an "L" since the "L" in Legitimo looks so
>> different. Also I'm thinking that the last letter really might be an
>> "r" instead of an "s" since it looks similar to the other "r's" in
>> the document.
>>
>> 4) Does anyone doing research in Aguas have a Simon Torres married to
>> an Ynes de Flores y ???
>>
>>
>

Maybe it is Flores de Lira: see below:

Results for:

Flores de lira

[refine
search]

Exact Spelling: On

Matches:

All Sources - 5

International Genealogical Index - Mexico

1.
MARSELO FLORES
DE LIRA - International Genealogical Index / ME
Gender: Male Marriage: 05 OCT 1833 Malpaso De Villanueva, Zacatecas, Mexico

Matches:

International Genealogical Index/Mexico - 1

_____

Vital Records Index - Mexico

2.
Jose Cesilio de la
Trinidad FLORES DE LIRA - Vital Records Index / ME
Gender: M Birth/Christening: 30 Jul 1838 Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico

3.
Maria de la Trinidad
de San Buenaventura FLORES DE LIRA - Vital Records Index / ME
Gender: F Birth/Christening: 15 Jul 1837 Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico

4.
Miana Josepha FLORES
DE LIRA - Vital Records Index / ME
Gender: F Birth/Christening: 01 Mar 1752 San Nicolas de Agustinos,
Guanajuato, Mexico

5.
Wenceslao de la
Trinidad FLORES DE LIRA - Vital Records Index / ME
Gender: M Birth/Christening: 01 Oct 1839 Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico

Matches:

Vital Records/Mexico - 4

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com] En nombre de Joseph
Puentes
Enviado el: Sunday, May 11, 2008 7:48 AM
Para: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Rick, John, Bill, David, Mike: Thanks - Death
Certificate Help Request

Thanks much to the five of you for your help with this death cert. I

have doubt about this record and will go to the FHC and make some copies

of surrounding records to get a better collection of this scribes

handwriting.

This is something I should have done from the beginning and something

I'd like to share with others just starting out. When you have a record

that is hard to decipher because may the opposite page had too much ink

or the ink faded or just poor penmenship go to other records around your

target record and make several copies of them and see if you can find

words that you are confident you have the meaning of and see if those

letters "appear" to be the same in the word or words you have in question.

thanks again to Rick, John, Bill, David and Mike for your great help

with this record. I still have lingering doubts about that being an "L"

in Lisar or Liras since it looks like part of the letter or word is

missing. I punched in Liras and got very few hits on the LDS

familysearch.org site and none for Lisar. I know that is not conclusive

but it puts doubt in my mind about the Lisar option. I'm doubting that

it is an "S" also since the "S's" in other words seem to NOT flow into

the next letter (see Simon, Sacramentos, Sinco) but the Letter at the

beginning of the surname in question does flow into the next letter.

I'll need to get more copies of this persons handwriting to find more

clues. thanks

thanks again you all,

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes

http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)

http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)

http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)

http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)

http://NuestrosRanchos.com (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes

Genealogy)

Mike Gordoa wrote:

> Joseph,

> 1.I vote for oriundo (native).

> 3.I vote Siras.

>

> Goog Luck Mike.

>

> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Puentes"

> To:

> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 2:25 PM

> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Death Certificate Help Request

>

>

>>

>> Hi,

>>

>> I was hoping some could look at this record and give me your opinion

>> of a couple of things I don't understand:

>>

>>
http://nuestrafamiliaunida.com/ranchos/PedroTorresDeath1158292v02p28(Feb1822
)Zoom.jpg

>>

>>

>> 1) What is the word right before this phrase: "De la Villa de

>> Aguascalientes"?

>>

>> 2) What do ALL the abbreviations at the top left mean?

>>

>> 3) What is the second surname of Maria Ynes de Flores y ???Liras???

>> I'm in doubt that this is an "L" since the "L" in Legitimo looks so

>> different. Also I'm thinking that the last letter really might be an

>> "r" instead of an "s" since it looks similar to the other "r's" in

>> the document.

>>

>> 4) Does anyone doing research in Aguas have a Simon Torres married to

>> an Ynes de Flores y ???

>>

>>

>

i am not certain if this is the correct process or if you are the point of contact for assistance. i am searching for my maternal grandmother, known as maria reyes rodriguez, born about march 15, 1894, we believe in rincon de romos, aguascalientes. her father was santiago rodriguez, born about 1875, her mother was victoriana reyes born about 1875, but not certain. i have located at least two of her brothers thru family search as well as what appears to be five of her great grandmothers, but can not find her. can you give me some assistance or ideas to follow up on. any assistance will be appreciated.
respectfully,
delia dominguez(duran)

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