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Sanchez y Valdivia de San Miguel el Alto

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By rodolfosinai - Posted on 29 February 2008

Ricardo, que gusto, nuevamente eres la luz en el oscurantismo de mi enigma familiar, muchas gracias. De verdad los Valdivia son morenos? conservo una foto de la boda de mis abuelos y mi abuela al igual que sus hermanas eran muy blancas y con ojos azules o verdes, creo que ya te había mandado esa foto te la vuelvo a mandar. La novia es mi abuela Agustina Valdivia Sánchez, a su lado sentada en el piso su hermana Conrrada, a su lado en la fila de atrás, enseguida del niño son Guadalupe y Rita, otras hermanas de mi abuela, como puedes ver son blancas y 2 son rubias, las tres hijas de mi abuela (mi madre y sus dos hermanas) son también blancas y mis dos tías son pelirojas (naturales). Creo que eso lo podremos arreglar con pruebas de ADN, existe gente que identifica el porcentaje de sangre de cada grupo étnico y continente en el ADN de un individuo, si muchos descendientes de los Valdivia nos haríamos esa prueba podríamos identificar las características comunes de la familia y determinar a que grupo pertenecen. Por cierto, tu sabes como donde y como hacerse éstos exámenes? Te pido de favor que en cuanto tu tiempo te lo permita imprimas la foto y se la muestres a los primos de mi abuela para ver si se acuerdan de ella y sus hermanas. No sé nada de las hermanas de mi abuela. Hasta pronto. Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez.> From: rickrod.com@gmail.com> To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:22:39 -0600> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sanchez y Valdivia de San Miguel el Alto> > Hola primo,> Gusto en volver a saber de ti. Ahí te va:> > Cirila Sánchez Sánchez, hija de Gregorio Sanchez y Lucia Sanchez (casados el> 1 de Febrero de 1884 en San Miguel el Alto [rollo #279454]), hasta ahí tengo> por el momento hasta que vaya a San Miguel o a algún centro familiar de LDS> a buscar el acta de matrimonio.> > La gran mayoría de los Valdivia que yo conozco de San Miguel el Alto y de> aquí de Valle de Guadalupe son morenos, lo cual me hace creer que procedemos> por este lado en su mayoría de personas nativas de la región. Aunque te diré> que los de esta rama llevamos el apellido Valdivia proveniente del> matrimonio entre Sebastián Valdivia e Isabel Martin, aproximadamente por el> año de 1700 en Jalostotitlán. No sé si esta pareja haya sido la primera con> este apellido, quizás alguien del grupo tiene más información acerca de este> matrimonio. Si mis suposiciones son correctas, te vas a dar cuenta que la> línea paterna de esta rama Valdivia de San Miguel el Alto no será la misma> que la de otras ramas Valdivia de la región o de México. > > Cuando encuentres mas información acerca de tu rama Valdivia me avisas para> poder compararla con la que yo tengo y ver si obtenemos los mismos datos> genealógicos. Es una buena manera de saber si no me he equivocado en mi> investigación.> > Bueno primo, que estés bien y estamos en contacto.> > Saludos,> > Ricardo Rodríguez> Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco> > > -----Mensaje original-----> De: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com> [mailto:research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com] En nombre de Rodolfo> Sinai Gomez> Enviado el: Miércoles 27 de Febrero de 2008 9:16 AM> Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.com> Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sanchez y Valdivia de San Miguel el Alto y> Guadalupe Jalisco> > > Estimados todos. Hace unos meses Ricardo Rodríguez me hizo el inmenso favor> de proporcionarme el nombre de mis tatarabuelos por parte de la familia> Valdivia y Sánchez, por lo cual estoy muy agradecido. La curiosidad> insaciable del historiador me lleva a pedirles su ayuda para poder conocer> la historia de esas familias y de ser posible el nombre de mis antepasados. > > Alguien tiene información de quienes fueron los primeros Valdivia en San> Miguel el Alto y cual era su procedencia? Alguno de ustedes puede decirme> quienes eran los padres de Cirila Sánchez Sánchez que casó con Juan Valdivia> Moreno? ellos son mis bisabuelos, padres de Agustina Valdivia Sánchez que> nació en San Miguel el Alto en febrero 20 de 1931.> > Muchas gracias.> > Saludos a todos.> > Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez.> _________________________________________________________________> ¡Súper premios en nanometrajes subiendo tu video!> http://cine.prodigymsn.com/nanometraje> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
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Dos categorías, increíbles premios, un ganador. ¿Quieres ser tú?
http://cine.prodigymsn.com/nanometraje

Hola Rodolfo,
Como has estado? La línea de los Valdivia que yo conozco son mas morenos que
blancos pero quizás es porque ya se han mezclado con otras familias. Como te
mencioné en mi pasado correo, a según mis datos, si se le hiciera una prueba
de ADN del cromosoma paterno a alguno de esta rama Valdivia de San Miguel el
Alto te darás cuenta que no van a coincidir los resultados con los demás
Valdivia de la región. No sé cuantas personas de este apellido queden dentro
de esta línea pero me imagino que son bastantes.

Te digo esto porque Miguel Ciriaco Valdivia (nuestro ancestro), nacido el 21
de agosto de 1771 en San Miguel el Alto, fue hijo de "padre no conocido" por
lo que tomó el apellido de su madre Ricarda (o Rosalía) Valdivia Sánchez.
Algunas personas que todavía viven me han dicho que JUAN VALDIVIA RODRÍGUEZ
(mi tatarabuelo, bisnieto de MIGUEL CIRIACO VALDIVIA, primo hermano de tu
tatarabuelo CESAREO VALDIVIA DOMÍNGUEZ) era una persona morena de rasgos
indígenas, pero quien sabe.

Las pruebas de ADN las hacen varias compañías de EU y hasta te hacen llegar
el kit de prueba aquí a México. Por lo que me han dicho, uno de las mejores
laboratorios para hacer los análisis es el de www.familytreedna.com.
Yo ya me hice los análisis a través de Sorenson o Relative Genetics, pero lo
malo que como es gratis, no te hacen saber tus resultados como lo hacen los
que te cobran por ellos.

Bueno Rodolfo, espero algún día nos podamos conocer si vienes acá a San
Miguel el Alto o Valle de Guadalupe. Me avisas si vienes por estos rumbos.
Si necesitas algo de la parroquia de San Miguel me avisas.

Hasta luego, que estés bien.

Ricardo

My Spanish is lacking but I get the general idea that whether a persons family is light or dark skined determines if they were Spaniards or Indios is the question.

I have to agree that it doesn't mean a thing without dna or mtdna testing. My mother and her mother were blond, blued eyed and claimed to be Spaniards. In doing the genealogy records I found most were Spanish but I also have a black line and that was only 200 years ago. My mtdna came back that my first mother was Native American, Nahua in Mexico. Even the records don't always tell the truth about origin. Being listed as Spanish seems to equate with money or prestige. In my Zacatecas lineage I have 4 Caldera grandmothers all claiming Espanol when we know for a fact that Maria and Capitan Miguel Caldera had an Indio mother. The joy is in reclaiming all our heritage and the surprise's along the way.

I do hope our Spanish speaking members understand what I'm trying to say.

Linda Castanon-Long in Everett

Rick Rodriguez wrote:
Hola Rodolfo,
Como has estado? La línea de los Valdivia que yo conozco son mas morenos que
blancos pero quizás es porque ya se han mezclado con otras familias. Como te
mencioné en mi pasado correo, a según mis datos, si se le hiciera una prueba
de ADN del cromosoma paterno a alguno de esta rama Valdivia de San Miguel el
Alto te darás cuenta que no van a coincidir los resultados con los demás
Valdivia de la región. No sé cuantas personas de este apellido queden dentro
de esta línea pero me imagino que son bastantes.

Te digo esto porque Miguel Ciriaco Valdivia (nuestro ancestro), nacido el 21
de agosto de 1771 en San Miguel el Alto, fue hijo de "padre no conocido" por
lo que tomó el apellido de su madre Ricarda (o Rosalía) Valdivia Sánchez.
Algunas personas que todavía viven me han dicho que JUAN VALDIVIA RODRÍGUEZ
(mi tatarabuelo, bisnieto de MIGUEL CIRIACO VALDIVIA, primo hermano de tu
tatarabuelo CESAREO VALDIVIA DOMÍNGUEZ) era una persona morena de rasgos
indígenas, pero quien sabe.

Las pruebas de ADN las hacen varias compañías de EU y hasta te hacen llegar
el kit de prueba aquí a México. Por lo que me han dicho, uno de las mejores
laboratorios para hacer los análisis es el de www.familytreedna.com.
Yo ya me hice los análisis a través de Sorenson o Relative Genetics, pero lo
malo que como es gratis, no te hacen saber tus resultados como lo hacen los
que te cobran por ellos.

Bueno Rodolfo, espero algún día nos podamos conocer si vienes acá a San
Miguel el Alto o Valle de Guadalupe. Me avisas si vienes por estos rumbos.
Si necesitas algo de la parroquia de San Miguel me avisas.

Hasta luego, que estés bien.

Ricardo

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

I agree with you Linda. I also believe it's impossible to know if the
ancestors of a certain genealogical line here in Los Altos de Jalisco were
from European descent or native Americans just by their last name. I'm not
sure if it happened in other regions but I read that when the native
Mexicans first started carrying last names here in Jalisco, that when their
children were baptized, some of them were given the last name of their
"padrino" or godfather, and that the padrino was the one who decided what
name and last name to give the newborn child.

I recently had a friend of mine of last name JIMENEZ, which is obvious a
Spanish surname, take his DNA test and his Y chromosome results came out as
native American. Either one of his ancestors adopted this last name as his
or somewhere along the way one of his great grandfather's mother had him
from an "unknown" father and gave him the last name JIMENEZ. I'm still not
that far on this research.

In my case, until about 100 years ago, I'd say that 95% of my ancestors were
European (I won't say Spanish because I'm still not sure if one my paternal
great grandfathers was from Spain or France), but I do not look like the
typical Spanish descending person from this region. Many people in the US
have asked me if I'm from the Middle East, which I have to confess that at
first I thought it was mean of them, but as I started to know my ancestors,
I don't think it's awkward at all, especially because I do look like someone
from that region. I just got my DNA results back a few weeks ago and it
turns out that I'm from the K2 haplogroup, which is Mediterranean. This
explains why I don't look like the Spanish blondes here in Los Altos, that
come from North-Western Europe.

Who knows!

Ricardo Rodriguez
Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com] En nombre de Erlinda
Castanon-Long
Enviado el: Viernes 29 de Febrero de 2008 7:27 PM
Para: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sanchez y Valdivia de San Miguel el Alto

My Spanish is lacking but I get the general idea that whether a persons
family is light or dark skined determines if they were Spaniards or Indios
is the question.

I have to agree that it doesn't mean a thing without dna or mtdna testing.
My mother and her mother were blond, blued eyed and claimed to be Spaniards.
In doing the genealogy records I found most were Spanish but I also have a
black line and that was only 200 years ago. My mtdna came back that my
first mother was Native American, Nahua in Mexico. Even the records don't
always tell the truth about origin. Being listed as Spanish seems to equate
with money or prestige. In my Zacatecas lineage I have 4 Caldera
grandmothers all claiming Espanol when we know for a fact that Maria and
Capitan Miguel Caldera had an Indio mother. The joy is in reclaiming all
our heritage and the surprise's along the way.

I do hope our Spanish speaking members understand what I'm trying to say.

Linda Castanon-Long in Everett

Rick, its interesting you mention "looking middle eastern". I have gotten that all my life. I visit cities like NY where there are a lot of them and they say I look like women from Dubai. I can't wait to see what my DNA says.

Saludos!

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Hi Sandra,

Have Mexican people ever asked you "hablas español?". Everytime I get that
question my answer is "pos que no me ves el nopalote que tengo pintado en la
frente"?
They're like, ohhh, I thought you were from India or Saudi Arabia!!!!!
I guess both races have similar mixtures.

What part of Mexico are your ancestors from?

Saludos

Ricardo Rodriguez
Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com] En nombre de
sandragomezmendoza@yahoo.com
Enviado el: Viernes 29 de Febrero de 2008 8:28 PM
Para: research
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sanchez y Valdivia de San Miguel el Alto

Rick, its interesting you mention "looking middle eastern". I have gotten
that all my life. I visit cities like NY where there are a lot of them and
they say I look like women from Dubai. I can't wait to see what my DNA says.

Saludos!

Hi Rick,

I currently live in San Antonio, Tx but all my family for about 5 generations is from Juchipila, Amoxochitl and Moyahua, Zac. Before that its like the rest of us... Jalos, Nochistlan, Ags, Lagos de Moreno, San Juan de los Lagos, San Miguel el Alto... Some connections to Spain, as well as the Moctezuma connection. This is all my mom's side though because I have not gotten past Juchipila and Moyahua on my dad's side unfortunately.

A mi me pasa lo contrario... Gente del Medio Oriente me habla en su idioma pensando que les entiendo! Y luego peor que comemos cosas "raras" que ellos tambien comen... Asi que asi se confunden mas!

You speak English well. Do you live in Jalisco now?

Saludos!

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Hi Sandra,

My ancestors are from Jalos, San Miguel el Alto, San Juan de los Lagos,
Teocaltiche, Tepatitlán, Capilla de Guadalupe, Arandas, Ayotlán,
Guadalajara, and of most recently, from Valle de Guadalupe, where I
currently live and do my research.

I was born and raised in Los Angeles, CA but my parents brought us to Mexico
to live when I was 10. I was here until I was old enough to go back to the
US by myself thinking I would like it there, but I saw that I enjoyed life
more here in Mexico, living close to family, friends and most important, in
my real country, so I came back.

Do you have a pedigree chart that I can look at and see if we have any
ancestors in common? I'm pretty far on my genealogical research, though I'm
stuck on the one that I'm more interested in (RODRIGUEZ). I'm stuck in Jalos
around 1780, trying to find the missing link to maybe the RODRIGUEZ DE
PORTUGAL or another RODRIGUEZ family.

How far are you on yours?

Saludos,

Ricardo Rodriguez
Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com] En nombre de
sandragomezmendoza@yahoo.com
Enviado el: Viernes 29 de Febrero de 2008 9:06 PM
Para: research
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sanchez y Valdivia de San Miguel el Alto

Hi Rick,

I currently live in San Antonio, Tx but all my family for about 5
generations is from Juchipila, Amoxochitl and Moyahua, Zac. Before that its
like the rest of us... Jalos, Nochistlan, Ags, Lagos de Moreno, San Juan de
los Lagos, San Miguel el Alto... Some connections to Spain, as well as the
Moctezuma connection. This is all my mom's side though because I have not
gotten past Juchipila and Moyahua on my dad's side unfortunately.

A mi me pasa lo contrario... Gente del Medio Oriente me habla en su idioma
pensando que les entiendo! Y luego peor que comemos cosas "raras" que ellos
tambien comen... Asi que asi se confunden mas!

You speak English well. Do you live in Jalisco now?

Saludos!

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Ricardo, try looking for Rodriguez in Nochistlan Zacatecas.
Miguel Gutierrez de la Torre
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Rodriguez
To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sanchez y Valdivia de San Miguel el Alto

Hi Sandra,

My ancestors are from Jalos, San Miguel el Alto, San Juan de los Lagos,
Teocaltiche, Tepatitlán, Capilla de Guadalupe, Arandas, Ayotlán,
Guadalajara, and of most recently, from Valle de Guadalupe, where I
currently live and do my research.

I was born and raised in Los Angeles, CA but my parents brought us to Mexico
to live when I was 10. I was here until I was old enough to go back to the
US by myself thinking I would like it there, but I saw that I enjoyed life
more here in Mexico, living close to family, friends and most important, in
my real country, so I came back.

Do you have a pedigree chart that I can look at and see if we have any
ancestors in common? I'm pretty far on my genealogical research, though I'm
stuck on the one that I'm more interested in (RODRIGUEZ). I'm stuck in Jalos
around 1780, trying to find the missing link to maybe the RODRIGUEZ DE
PORTUGAL or another RODRIGUEZ family.

How far are you on yours?

Saludos,

Ricardo Rodriguez
Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com] En nombre de
sandragomezmendoza@yahoo.com
Enviado el: Viernes 29 de Febrero de 2008 9:06 PM
Para: research
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sanchez y Valdivia de San Miguel el Alto

Hi Rick,

I currently live in San Antonio, Tx but all my family for about 5
generations is from Juchipila, Amoxochitl and Moyahua, Zac. Before that its
like the rest of us... Jalos, Nochistlan, Ags, Lagos de Moreno, San Juan de
los Lagos, San Miguel el Alto... Some connections to Spain, as well as the
Moctezuma connection. This is all my mom's side though because I have not
gotten past Juchipila and Moyahua on my dad's side unfortunately.

A mi me pasa lo contrario... Gente del Medio Oriente me habla en su idioma
pensando que les entiendo! Y luego peor que comemos cosas "raras" que ellos
tambien comen... Asi que asi se confunden mas!

You speak English well. Do you live in Jalisco now?

Saludos!

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Good idea, I will.

Gracias Miguel

Ricardo, try looking for Rodriguez in Nochistlan Zacatecas.

Miguel Gutierrez de la Torre

----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Rodriguez
To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sanchez y Valdivia de San Miguel el Alto

Hi Sandra,

My ancestors are from Jalos, San Miguel el Alto, San Juan de los Lagos,
Teocaltiche, Tepatitlán, Capilla de Guadalupe, Arandas, Ayotlán,
Guadalajara, and of most recently, from Valle de Guadalupe, where I
currently live and do my research.

I was born and raised in Los Angeles, CA but my parents brought us to
Mexico
to live when I was 10. I was here until I was old enough to go back to the
US by myself thinking I would like it there, but I saw that I enjoyed life
more here in Mexico, living close to family, friends and most important,
in
my real country, so I came back.

Do you have a pedigree chart that I can look at and see if we have any
ancestors in common? I'm pretty far on my genealogical research, though
I'm
stuck on the one that I'm more interested in (RODRIGUEZ). I'm stuck in
Jalos
around 1780, trying to find the missing link to maybe the RODRIGUEZ DE
PORTUGAL or another RODRIGUEZ family.

How far are you on yours?

Saludos,

Ricardo Rodriguez
Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco

Ricardo, I have Maria Rodriguez daughter of Bernabe and Catalina Torres from Nochistlan who married May 31, 1717 in Jalos to Juan Alvarez Tostado son of Capitan Francisco and Ana Ramirez de Mendoza from Jalosfrom Jalos they married in Nochistlan. If you send a partial tree, maybe I can help.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Rodriguez
To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sanchez y Valdivia de San Miguel el Alto

Good idea, I will.

Gracias Miguel

Ricardo, try looking for Rodriguez in Nochistlan Zacatecas.

Miguel Gutierrez de la Torre

----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Rodriguez>
To: research@NuestrosRanchos.com>
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sanchez y Valdivia de San Miguel el Alto

Hi Sandra,

My ancestors are from Jalos, San Miguel el Alto, San Juan de los Lagos,
Teocaltiche, Tepatitlán, Capilla de Guadalupe, Arandas, Ayotlán,
Guadalajara, and of most recently, from Valle de Guadalupe, where I
currently live and do my research.

I was born and raised in Los Angeles, CA but my parents brought us to
Mexico
to live when I was 10. I was here until I was old enough to go back to the
US by myself thinking I would like it there, but I saw that I enjoyed life
more here in Mexico, living close to family, friends and most important,
in
my real country, so I came back.

Do you have a pedigree chart that I can look at and see if we have any
ancestors in common? I'm pretty far on my genealogical research, though
I'm
stuck on the one that I'm more interested in (RODRIGUEZ). I'm stuck in
Jalos
around 1780, trying to find the missing link to maybe the RODRIGUEZ DE
PORTUGAL or another RODRIGUEZ family.

How far are you on yours?

Saludos,

Ricardo Rodriguez
Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco

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