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Colonial Somberette and Jacqez family

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By ayalarobles - Posted on 10 December 2007

Hi,

I have traced my La Riva line to Tomas Jaquez who married in San Juan Del RIo, Durango in 1689. The marriage record stated he was from Somberette, Zacatecas. I guess he was he was born about 1660. I can't find church records for that period in Somberette. I suspect the family was French. I am looking for any information for the early colonial Somberette. I would like the names of several books just on Somberette. I know about the mines but outside of the Toolosa and Ybarra familes I do not know about other families living there. I know by looking at some immigration records, some Jacquez came from Flanders. If anyone can give me any clues or suggestions I would most appreciate it.

Thanks,

AyalaRobles

--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from Latina1955@aol.com: --------------

>
> In a message dated 12/9/2007 4:50:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> longsjourney@yahoo.com writes:
>
> Esperanza, your reference to Valle de Guadalupe, Michoacan, is that the same
> one that is part of Chilchota Michoacan. Do you have specific surnames?
> I've traced my Gutierrez/ Alvarez del Castillo to there back to abt 1620 and
> wondered if by any chance it's the same Valle de Guadalupe.
> thank you, Linda in Everett
>
> By the way, my ancestors in Jerez Zacatecas said they had French blood too,
> not true according to the records. Lot's of blue and green eyes, red,
> blond and brown hair but not a Frenchman in the bunch!
>
>
>
>
> Yes it is...although Chichota is at the other side of the mountain. This is
> my husband's side of the family ---surnames include Valdez, Oropeza,Ortiz,
> Duarte, Escobar, Madrigal, and Rocha. There is a large Alvarez family that is
> married with some of my husband's cousins. Remember that the French were not
> very embraced after they were supposed to leave...therefore, those that did
> stay, stayed in small village often changing their names. The family Escobar
> is said to have the French ancestry. They intermarried the locals, and all
> that is left is the legacy of their word.
>
> My aunt also insisted that we had French blood (from Tlaltenango). However
> I did not put much credence into this, as she had virtually no contact with
> the relatives left in Mexico - she may have heard this from my
> grandparents..but in those days, grandparents did not talk about back
> home....they fled
> Mexico because my grandfather had killed someone of importance during the civil
> war.
>
> She (my aunt) may have put this together because in our family we have some
> very fair skinned individuals....in my own family, I had two brothers (one
> died) who had sandy brown hair and bright blue eyes (both needed picks to comb
> their hair). The rest of us look either extremely "indio" or like any other
> Mexican one would see throughout Mexico.
>
> Esperanza
>
>
>
> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
> products.
> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

Jaquez is a patronymic of Jacome or Jaime, it means the son of Jacome (an
old Spanish version of James) or of Jaime.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com] En nombre de
eaherold@att.net
Enviado el: Lunes, 10 de Diciembre de 2007 11:03 a.m.
Para: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Colonial Somberette and Jacqez family

Hi,

I have traced my La Riva line to Tomas Jaquez who married in San Juan Del
RIo, Durango in 1689. The marriage record stated he was from Somberette,
Zacatecas. I guess he was he was born about 1660. I can't find church
records for that period in Somberette. I suspect the family was French. I
am looking for any information for the early colonial Somberette. I would
like the names of several books just on Somberette. I know about the mines
but outside of the Toolosa and Ybarra familes I do not know about other
families living there. I know by looking at some immigration records, some
Jacquez came from Flanders. If anyone can give me any clues or suggestions I
would most appreciate it.

Thanks,

AyalaRobles

--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from Latina1955@aol.com: --------------

>
> In a message dated 12/9/2007 4:50:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> longsjourney@yahoo.com writes:
>
> Esperanza, your reference to Valle de Guadalupe, Michoacan, is that the
same
> one that is part of Chilchota Michoacan. Do you have specific surnames?
> I've traced my Gutierrez/ Alvarez del Castillo to there back to abt 1620
and
> wondered if by any chance it's the same Valle de Guadalupe.
> thank you, Linda in Everett
>
> By the way, my ancestors in Jerez Zacatecas said they had French blood
too,
> not true according to the records. Lot's of blue and green eyes, red,
> blond and brown hair but not a Frenchman in the bunch!
>
>
>
>
> Yes it is...although Chichota is at the other side of the mountain. This
is
> my husband's side of the family ---surnames include Valdez, Oropeza,Ortiz,

> Duarte, Escobar, Madrigal, and Rocha. There is a large Alvarez family that
is
> married with some of my husband's cousins. Remember that the French were
not
> very embraced after they were supposed to leave...therefore, those that
did
> stay, stayed in small village often changing their names. The family
Escobar
> is said to have the French ancestry. They intermarried the locals, and all

> that is left is the legacy of their word.
>
> My aunt also insisted that we had French blood (from Tlaltenango). However

> I did not put much credence into this, as she had virtually no contact
with
> the relatives left in Mexico - she may have heard this from my
> grandparents..but in those days, grandparents did not talk about back
> home....they fled
> Mexico because my grandfather had killed someone of importance during the
civil
> war.
>
> She (my aunt) may have put this together because in our family we have
some
> very fair skinned individuals....in my own family, I had two brothers (one

> died) who had sandy brown hair and bright blue eyes (both needed picks to
comb
> their hair). The rest of us look either extremely "indio" or like any
other
> Mexican one would see throughout Mexico.
>
> Esperanza
>
>
>
> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's
hottest
> products.
> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

Perhaps the reason you can't find the records is because the town is
spelled Sombrerete. Marge:)
On Dec 10, 2007, at 11:02 AM, eaherold@att.net wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have traced my La Riva line to Tomas Jaquez who married in San Juan
> Del RIo, Durango in 1689. The marriage record stated he was from
> Somberette, Zacatecas. I guess he was he was born about 1660. I
> can't find church records for that period in Somberette. I suspect
> the family was French. I am looking for any information for the early
> colonial Somberette. I would like the names of several books just on
> Somberette. I know about the mines but outside of the Toolosa and
> Ybarra familes I do not know about other families living there. I
> know by looking at some immigration records, some Jacquez came from
> Flanders. If anyone can give me any clues or suggestions I would most
> appreciate it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> AyalaRobles
>
>
> --
> Esther A. Herold
>
>
> -------------- Original message from Latina1955@aol.com: --------------
>
>
>>
>> In a message dated 12/9/2007 4:50:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>> longsjourney@yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> Esperanza, your reference to Valle de Guadalupe, Michoacan, is that
>> the same
>> one that is part of Chilchota Michoacan. Do you have specific
>> surnames?
>> I've traced my Gutierrez/ Alvarez del Castillo to there back to abt
>> 1620 and
>> wondered if by any chance it's the same Valle de Guadalupe.
>> thank you, Linda in Everett
>>
>> By the way, my ancestors in Jerez Zacatecas said they had French
>> blood too,
>> not true according to the records. Lot's of blue and green eyes, red,
>> blond and brown hair but not a Frenchman in the bunch!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes it is...although Chichota is at the other side of the mountain.
>> This is
>> my husband's side of the family ---surnames include Valdez,
>> Oropeza,Ortiz,
>> Duarte, Escobar, Madrigal, and Rocha. There is a large Alvarez family
>> that is
>> married with some of my husband's cousins. Remember that the French
>> were not
>> very embraced after they were supposed to leave...therefore, those
>> that did
>> stay, stayed in small village often changing their names. The family
>> Escobar
>> is said to have the French ancestry. They intermarried the locals,
>> and all
>> that is left is the legacy of their word.
>>
>> My aunt also insisted that we had French blood (from Tlaltenango).
>> However
>> I did not put much credence into this, as she had virtually no
>> contact with
>> the relatives left in Mexico - she may have heard this from my
>> grandparents..but in those days, grandparents did not talk about back
>> home....they fled
>> Mexico because my grandfather had killed someone of importance during
>> the civil
>> war.
>>
>> She (my aunt) may have put this together because in our family we
>> have some
>> very fair skinned individuals....in my own family, I had two brothers
>> (one
>> died) who had sandy brown hair and bright blue eyes (both needed
>> picks to comb
>> their hair). The rest of us look either extremely "indio" or like any
>> other
>> Mexican one would see throughout Mexico.
>>
>> Esperanza
>>
>>
>>
>> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's
>> hottest
>> products.
>> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?
>> NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

You also want to look in certain archives for "villa de Llerena", which was
its old name.

Regards,
Hector Felix Aizcorbe

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.NuestrosRanchos.com] En nombre de M.Vallazza
Enviado el: Lunes, 10 de Diciembre de 2007 12:07 p.m.
Para: research@NuestrosRanchos.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Colonial Somberette and Jacqez family

Perhaps the reason you can't find the records is because the town is
spelled Sombrerete. Marge:)
On Dec 10, 2007, at 11:02 AM, eaherold@att.net wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have traced my La Riva line to Tomas Jaquez who married in San Juan
> Del RIo, Durango in 1689. The marriage record stated he was from
> Somberette, Zacatecas. I guess he was he was born about 1660. I
> can't find church records for that period in Somberette. I suspect
> the family was French. I am looking for any information for the early
> colonial Somberette. I would like the names of several books just on
> Somberette. I know about the mines but outside of the Toolosa and
> Ybarra familes I do not know about other families living there. I
> know by looking at some immigration records, some Jacquez came from
> Flanders. If anyone can give me any clues or suggestions I would most
> appreciate it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> AyalaRobles
>
>
> --
> Esther A. Herold
>
>
> -------------- Original message from Latina1955@aol.com: --------------
>
>
>>
>> In a message dated 12/9/2007 4:50:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>> longsjourney@yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> Esperanza, your reference to Valle de Guadalupe, Michoacan, is that
>> the same
>> one that is part of Chilchota Michoacan. Do you have specific
>> surnames?
>> I've traced my Gutierrez/ Alvarez del Castillo to there back to abt
>> 1620 and
>> wondered if by any chance it's the same Valle de Guadalupe.
>> thank you, Linda in Everett
>>
>> By the way, my ancestors in Jerez Zacatecas said they had French
>> blood too,
>> not true according to the records. Lot's of blue and green eyes, red,
>> blond and brown hair but not a Frenchman in the bunch!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes it is...although Chichota is at the other side of the mountain.
>> This is
>> my husband's side of the family ---surnames include Valdez,
>> Oropeza,Ortiz,
>> Duarte, Escobar, Madrigal, and Rocha. There is a large Alvarez family
>> that is
>> married with some of my husband's cousins. Remember that the French
>> were not
>> very embraced after they were supposed to leave...therefore, those
>> that did
>> stay, stayed in small village often changing their names. The family
>> Escobar
>> is said to have the French ancestry. They intermarried the locals,
>> and all
>> that is left is the legacy of their word.
>>
>> My aunt also insisted that we had French blood (from Tlaltenango).
>> However
>> I did not put much credence into this, as she had virtually no
>> contact with
>> the relatives left in Mexico - she may have heard this from my
>> grandparents..but in those days, grandparents did not talk about back
>> home....they fled
>> Mexico because my grandfather had killed someone of importance during
>> the civil
>> war.
>>
>> She (my aunt) may have put this together because in our family we
>> have some
>> very fair skinned individuals....in my own family, I had two brothers
>> (one
>> died) who had sandy brown hair and bright blue eyes (both needed
>> picks to comb
>> their hair). The rest of us look either extremely "indio" or like any
>> other
>> Mexican one would see throughout Mexico.
>>
>> Esperanza
>>
>>
>>
>> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's
>> hottest
>> products.
>> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?
>> NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

Pardon my spelling and mistyping but the Mormon site is still not showing anything on San Juan Bautista (Sombrerete, Zacatecas) before 1678. I need birth and marriages records before 1670. I have run out of records.
I know it is very difficult in most areas of Mexico to research anything earlier that 1700s. I am hoping to benefit from the experiences of more experienced researchers,

Thanks,
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from M.Vallazza : --------------

> Perhaps the reason you can't find the records is because the town is
> spelled Sombrerete. Marge:)
> On Dec 10, 2007, at 11:02 AM, eaherold@att.net wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have traced my La Riva line to Tomas Jaquez who married in San Juan
> > Del RIo, Durango in 1689. The marriage record stated he was from
> > Somberette, Zacatecas. I guess he was he was born about 1660. I
> > can't find church records for that period in Somberette. I suspect
> > the family was French. I am looking for any information for the early
> > colonial Somberette. I would like the names of several books just on
> > Somberette. I know about the mines but outside of the Toolosa and
> > Ybarra familes I do not know about other families living there. I
> > know by looking at some immigration records, some Jacquez came from
> > Flanders. If anyone can give me any clues or suggestions I would most
> > appreciate it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > AyalaRobles
> >
> >
> > --
> > Esther A. Herold
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message from Latina1955@aol.com: --------------
> >
> >
> >>
> >> In a message dated 12/9/2007 4:50:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> >> longsjourney@yahoo.com writes:
> >>
> >> Esperanza, your reference to Valle de Guadalupe, Michoacan, is that
> >> the same
> >> one that is part of Chilchota Michoacan. Do you have specific
> >> surnames?
> >> I've traced my Gutierrez/ Alvarez del Castillo to there back to abt
> >> 1620 and
> >> wondered if by any chance it's the same Valle de Guadalupe.
> >> thank you, Linda in Everett
> >>
> >> By the way, my ancestors in Jerez Zacatecas said they had French
> >> blood too,
> >> not true according to the records. Lot's of blue and green eyes, red,
> >> blond and brown hair but not a Frenchman in the bunch!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes it is...although Chichota is at the other side of the mountain.
> >> This is
> >> my husband's side of the family ---surnames include Valdez,
> >> Oropeza,Ortiz,
> >> Duarte, Escobar, Madrigal, and Rocha. There is a large Alvarez family
> >> that is
> >> married with some of my husband's cousins. Remember that the French
> >> were not
> >> very embraced after they were supposed to leave...therefore, those
> >> that did
> >> stay, stayed in small village often changing their names. The family
> >> Escobar
> >> is said to have the French ancestry. They intermarried the locals,
> >> and all
> >> that is left is the legacy of their word.
> >>
> >> My aunt also insisted that we had French blood (from Tlaltenango).
> >> However
> >> I did not put much credence into this, as she had virtually no
> >> contact with
> >> the relatives left in Mexico - she may have heard this from my
> >> grandparents..but in those days, grandparents did not talk about back
> >> home....they fled
> >> Mexico because my grandfather had killed someone of importance during
> >> the civil
> >> war.
> >>
> >> She (my aunt) may have put this together because in our family we
> >> have some
> >> very fair skinned individuals....in my own family, I had two brothers
> >> (one
> >> died) who had sandy brown hair and bright blue eyes (both needed
> >> picks to comb
> >> their hair). The rest of us look either extremely "indio" or like any
> >> other
> >> Mexican one would see throughout Mexico.
> >>
> >> Esperanza
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's
> >> hottest
> >> products.
> >> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?
> >> NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>
> >> To post, send email to:
> >> research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >>
> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
>

San Juan Bautista is the name of a parrish or the name of a town or a ranch?

eaherold@att.net escribió: Pardon my spelling and mistyping but the Mormon site is still not showing anything on San Juan Bautista (Sombrerete, Zacatecas) before 1678. I need birth and marriages records before 1670. I have run out of records.
I know it is very difficult in most areas of Mexico to research anything earlier that 1700s. I am hoping to benefit from the experiences of more experienced researchers,

Thanks,
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from M.Vallazza : --------------

> Perhaps the reason you can't find the records is because the town is
> spelled Sombrerete. Marge:)
> On Dec 10, 2007, at 11:02 AM, eaherold@att.net wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have traced my La Riva line to Tomas Jaquez who married in San Juan
> > Del RIo, Durango in 1689. The marriage record stated he was from
> > Somberette, Zacatecas. I guess he was he was born about 1660. I
> > can't find church records for that period in Somberette. I suspect
> > the family was French. I am looking for any information for the early
> > colonial Somberette. I would like the names of several books just on
> > Somberette. I know about the mines but outside of the Toolosa and
> > Ybarra familes I do not know about other families living there. I
> > know by looking at some immigration records, some Jacquez came from
> > Flanders. If anyone can give me any clues or suggestions I would most
> > appreciate it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > AyalaRobles
> >
> >
> > --
> > Esther A. Herold
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message from Latina1955@aol.com: --------------
> >
> >
> >>
> >> In a message dated 12/9/2007 4:50:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> >> longsjourney@yahoo.com writes:
> >>
> >> Esperanza, your reference to Valle de Guadalupe, Michoacan, is that
> >> the same
> >> one that is part of Chilchota Michoacan. Do you have specific
> >> surnames?
> >> I've traced my Gutierrez/ Alvarez del Castillo to there back to abt
> >> 1620 and
> >> wondered if by any chance it's the same Valle de Guadalupe.
> >> thank you, Linda in Everett
> >>
> >> By the way, my ancestors in Jerez Zacatecas said they had French
> >> blood too,
> >> not true according to the records. Lot's of blue and green eyes, red,
> >> blond and brown hair but not a Frenchman in the bunch!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes it is...although Chichota is at the other side of the mountain.
> >> This is
> >> my husband's side of the family ---surnames include Valdez,
> >> Oropeza,Ortiz,
> >> Duarte, Escobar, Madrigal, and Rocha. There is a large Alvarez family
> >> that is
> >> married with some of my husband's cousins. Remember that the French
> >> were not
> >> very embraced after they were supposed to leave...therefore, those
> >> that did
> >> stay, stayed in small village often changing their names. The family
> >> Escobar
> >> is said to have the French ancestry. They intermarried the locals,
> >> and all
> >> that is left is the legacy of their word.
> >>
> >> My aunt also insisted that we had French blood (from Tlaltenango).
> >> However
> >> I did not put much credence into this, as she had virtually no
> >> contact with
> >> the relatives left in Mexico - she may have heard this from my
> >> grandparents..but in those days, grandparents did not talk about back
> >> home....they fled
> >> Mexico because my grandfather had killed someone of importance during
> >> the civil
> >> war.
> >>
> >> She (my aunt) may have put this together because in our family we
> >> have some
> >> very fair skinned individuals....in my own family, I had two brothers
> >> (one
> >> died) who had sandy brown hair and bright blue eyes (both needed
> >> picks to comb
> >> their hair). The rest of us look either extremely "indio" or like any
> >> other
> >> Mexican one would see throughout Mexico.
> >>
> >> Esperanza
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's
> >> hottest
> >> products.
> >> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?
> >> NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>
> >> To post, send email to:
> >> research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >>
> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.NuestrosRanchos.com
> >
>

To make a note I remember learning this lesson! Once you reach the "end: of your years for a parish make sure to look around the surrounding parishes or even the huge ones! I have ancestors living in Fresnillo, Zac baptizing their children in Guadalajara! Quite far! 3-hour drive. People traveled a lot back in those days. -Hope this helps. -Daniel Mendez del Camino
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007

I think traveling to major cities like from Fresnillo to Guadalajara
(about 175 miles) was a major adventure. At 20 miles per day (guess at
mileage per day) would mean about 1 week going, staying for a while and
coming back a week. Sure put a hole in a month. I would guess they
gathered ALL the children that needed to be baptized to do them all at
once.

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)

Daniel Mendez wrote:
> To make a note I remember learning this lesson! Once you reach the "end: of your years for a parish make sure to look around the surrounding parishes or even the huge ones! I have ancestors living in Fresnillo, Zac baptizing their children in Guadalajara! Quite far! 3-hour drive. People traveled a lot back in those days. -Hope this helps. -Daniel Mendez del Camino
> _________________________________________________________________
> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
> http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007

Esther:

I am not sure when the secular parish was founded in Sombrerete, but initially (in 1567) the church in the town was actually a Franciscan convent. I know from trying to research the Franciscan convent records from Colotlan, Jalisco that they can often be dispersed... some records may have been left behind with the newly founded secular parish (and thus filmed with those records) while others may have been sent back to the Franciscan Order archives (probably in Santo Domingo in the City of Zacatecas--which probably means they are lost). However, there are some surviving Franciscan records in a number of dedicated Franciscan Order archives in Mexico.

This is only speculation... but I don't think that people traveled to distant cities to have their children baptized. More than likely, it was the priest who travelled to the smaller towns. So even though the priest was from Guadalajara and he recorded the baptizism in Guadalajara, he probably performed the baptizism locally.

Just my two centavos...
Angie

As far as I know. Only the Bishop travel to perform the "confirmaciones".

Sylvia H Corona

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