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P?ginas en espa?ol

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By drortiz - Posted on 28 July 2006

I don't mind reading and writing in Spanish on the list although I only consider myself conversant and not fluent. However, it drives me crazy to try to interpret all the words that have a "?" substituted for every accent mark, oomlaut, and tilde. Is there any way to have our program recognize Spanish symbols? Otherwise, I'd prefer to read Spanish without the marks.

I also don't think the translation from Babel Fish is very well done:
No importo el leer y el escribir en español en la lista aunque solamente me considero entendido y no fluido. Sin embargo, me conduce loco para intentar interpretar todas las palabras que tienen "?" substituido para cada marca, oomlaut, y tilde del acento. ¿Hay manera de hacer que nuestro programa reconozca símbolos españoles? Si no, preferiría leer a españoles sin las marcas.
También no pienso que es la traducción de los pescados de Babel muy bien hecha:
~Deena~
> Ya que hay un n?mero grande y creciente de miembros que prefieren comunicar en espa?ol es importante que intentemos hacer el sitio un poco m?s biling?e. Lo que escriben los miembros en sus mensajes ser?a bastante dif?cil traducir, pero esto se puede hacer a trav?s de una de las maquinas de traducci?n disponibles en la red como Babelfish. Intentaremos integrar esta funci?n al sitio en el futuro.

Deena:

We had this problem with the emails that the system was sending out as well. I imagine that it has something to do with the character system that your email is using to decode the messages but I believe there is a way to get the message to include a marker telling the email program what character system it is encoded in.

Can you just confirm that you are seeing the question marks in your email and not on the site itself.

Alguien quien recibe estos mesnajes en español... ¿Me podrían decir si reciben estos mensajes llenos de marcas de interrogación donde deberían haber tildes?

yes, I do.

arturoramos wrote:

>Deena:
>
>We had this problem with the emails that the system was sending out as well. I imagine that it has something to do with the character system that your email is using to decode the messages but I believe there is a way to get the message to include a marker telling the email program what character system it is encoded in.
>
>Can you just confirm that you are seeing the question marks in your email and not on the site itself.
>
>Alguien quien recibe estos mesnajes en español... ¿Me podrían decir si reciben estos mensajes llenos de marcas de interrogación donde deberían haber tildes?

Ken, Te saludo e informo que tu mensaje en español está legible y sin tildes. Quizá convendría para evitar lo que mencionas que los que escribimos en español nos olvidaramos de los acentos.

Ken Sweeney escribió: yes, I do.

arturoramos wrote:

>Deena:
>
>We had this problem with the emails that the system was sending out as well. I imagine that it has something to do with the character system that your email is using to decode the messages but I believe there is a way to get the message to include a marker telling the email program what character system it is encoded in.
>
>Can you just confirm that you are seeing the question marks in your email and not on the site itself.
>
>Alguien quien recibe estos mesnajes en español... ¿Me podrían decir si reciben estos mensajes llenos de marcas de interrogación donde deberían haber tildes?

Te saludo e informo que tu mensaje en español está legible. Tal vez convendría para los que escribimos en español olvidarnos de los acentos para clarificar nuestros mensajes.

arturoramos escribió:

Deena:

We had this problem with the emails that the system was sending out as well. I imagine that it has something to do with the character system that your email is using to decode the messages but I believe there is a way to get the message to include a marker telling the email program what character system it is encoded in.

Can you just confirm that you are seeing the question marks in your email and not on the site itself.

Alguien quien recibe estos mesnajes en español... ¿Me podrían decir si reciben estos mensajes llenos de marcas de interrogación donde deberían haber tildes?

Arturo,

I printed out the paragraph below that you typed in Spanish, and it printed out exactly as you typed it. However, I often print out things from other sites or e-mails that my printer garbles where there are n's with a tilde, or vowels with accent marks. I get little squares instead of those characters, and it is irritating. I tried changing my computer to Spanish language so that I wouldn't have to type a~no, etc. and so I could try to type in Spanish, but being technically challenged I failed.

Also, are we now required to translate our e-mails, etc.? I am not fluent in Spanish, and I have difficulty reading Spanish sometimes. Also, if Spanish-speaking people from Mexico are accessing and joining this group, isn't it obvious they can read English which is the language for the United States where this group started, even if they prefer to write their e-mails in Spanish? I don't mind them e-mailing in Spanish if they are more comfortable communicating in that language, but I am more comfortable e-mailing in English and I would prefer to be able to communicate in that language.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ----
----- Original Message -----
From: arturoramos
To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 4:07 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Accents and Question Marks

Deena:

We had this problem with the emails that the system was sending out as well. I imagine that it has something to do with the character system that your email is using to decode the messages but I believe there is a way to get the message to include a marker telling the email program what character system it is encoded in.

Can you just confirm that you are seeing the question marks in your email and not on the site itself.

Alguien quien recibe estos mesnajes en español... ¿Me podrían decir si reciben estos mensajes llenos de marcas de interrogación donde deberían haber tildes?

I know you were addressing this to Arturo but wanted to comment:

Emilie Garcia wrote:

>Arturo,
>
>Also, are we now required to translate our e-mails, etc.?
>
No you are not required to translate your emails

Ningún le no requieren traducir sus email

> I am not fluent in Spanish, and I have difficulty reading Spanish sometimes. Also, if Spanish-speaking people from Mexico are accessing and joining this group, isn't it obvious they can read English which is the language for the United States where this group started, even if they prefer to write their e-mails in Spanish?
>
I guess you could make an argument in that direction, but I think others
could forcefully argue in the other as well.

Conjeturo usted podría hacer una discusión en esa dirección, pero yo
piensa que otras podrían poderosamente discutir en la otra también.

> I don't mind them e-mailing in Spanish if they are more comfortable communicating in that language, but I am more comfortable e-mailing in English and I would prefer to be able to communicate in that language.
>
Unless I get an overwhelming amount of feedback on keeping this list in
English only I'm going to leave the language optional. If you want to
email in English you are free to. If you want to email in Spanish you
are free to. I think it would be great if the Spanish speakers used that
Babel Fish program (http://babelfish.altavista.com/) to translate their
messages for the majority English speaking members, but I'm not going to
make it a requirement. I also think that it would be great if the
English speaking majority would consider our non-English speaking
members by taking a few seconds and at a minimum using that BabelFish
program as well.

Thanks Emilie for bring the topic up. . .I think we need to discuss it.

joseph

A menos que consiga una cantidad del abrumador de regeneración en
mantener esta lista inglés solamente yo vaya a dejar la lengua opcional.
Si usted desea al email en inglés usted está libre a. Si usted desea al
email en español usted está libre a. Pienso que sería grande si los
altavoces españoles utilizaron ese programa de los pescados de Babel
(http://babelfish.altavista.com/) para traducir sus mensajes para los
miembros de discurso ingleses de la mayoría, pero no voy a hacerle un
requisito. También pienso que sería grande si la mayoría de discurso
inglesa consideraría a nuestros miembros de discurso no-Ingleses tomando
algunos segundos y en un mínimo usando ese programa de BabelFish también.

Las gracias Emilie por traen el asunto para arriba. Pienso que
necesitamos discutirlo.

José

>
>Emilie Garcia
>Port Orchard, WA ----
>
>
>

Emilie, et al:

By no means is anybody expecting anybody to write their emails in both languages. I imagine there are members that don't mind doing so and might even enjoy doing so (for short messages), but I believe that anyone who joined the group was aware that the majority of postings are in English.

The bilingual drive had more to do with getting the site functions to be bilingual and as I mentioned in an earlier message, there are online translation machines (even if they are bad as Deena points out) to translate messages if people absolutely cannot understand but I would argue against people putting their messages into those machines in order to translate them and post the garble that comes out. While it may be fine to get an idea of what a posting says, the quality is not good enough to be publishing anywhere, including on this site (in my humble opinion). I think people would rather read the English and struggle on their own to translate it.

I imagine there will be more postings in Spanish now that we have more people from Mexico in the group, but I also imagine that a posting that they wish to have the broadest audience will be made in English. I also imagine that postings targeted at our Mexican members might be made in Spanish by those residing in the U.S. and Canada.

There are plenty of bilingual people in the group who are willing to translate a message here or there when absolutely crucial, but otherwise, please keep posting as you always have.

Joseph,

I guess when I am responding to a message sent to the group from Mexico where the member has typed it in Spanish, I could try to use the translation program to respond. However, I am so technically challenged; I wouldn't begin to know how to use Babelfish. Can you explain how to use it in conjunction with the Nuestros Ranchos e-mails? I just thought it would be easier to continue as we have, some writing in Spanish since it is easier for them, and some writing in English since it is easier for them. We seem to have been understanding each other so far. I am concerned about those members who don't even understand written Spanish, but I guess the Babelfish will take care of that, although it sounds like a robot talking.

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Puentes
To: announce@nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 1:31 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Spanish/English???: Was-Accents and QuestionMarks

I know you were addressing this to Arturo but wanted to comment:

Emilie Garcia wrote:

>Arturo,
>
>Also, are we now required to translate our e-mails, etc.?
>
No you are not required to translate your emails

Ningún le no requieren traducir sus email

> I am not fluent in Spanish, and I have difficulty reading Spanish sometimes. Also, if Spanish-speaking people from Mexico are accessing and joining this group, isn't it obvious they can read English which is the language for the United States where this group started, even if they prefer to write their e-mails in Spanish?
>
I guess you could make an argument in that direction, but I think others
could forcefully argue in the other as well.

Conjeturo usted podría hacer una discusión en esa dirección, pero yo
piensa que otras podrían poderosamente discutir en la otra también.

> I don't mind them e-mailing in Spanish if they are more comfortable communicating in that language, but I am more comfortable e-mailing in English and I would prefer to be able to communicate in that language.
>
Unless I get an overwhelming amount of feedback on keeping this list in
English only I'm going to leave the language optional. If you want to
email in English you are free to. If you want to email in Spanish you
are free to. I think it would be great if the Spanish speakers used that
Babel Fish program (http://babelfish.altavista.com/) to translate their
messages for the majority English speaking members, but I'm not going to
make it a requirement. I also think that it would be great if the
English speaking majority would consider our non-English speaking
members by taking a few seconds and at a minimum using that BabelFish
program as well.

Thanks Emilie for bring the topic up. . .I think we need to discuss it.

joseph

A menos que consiga una cantidad del abrumador de regeneración en
mantener esta lista inglés solamente yo vaya a dejar la lengua opcional.
Si usted desea al email en inglés usted está libre a. Si usted desea al
email en español usted está libre a. Pienso que sería grande si los
altavoces españoles utilizaron ese programa de los pescados de Babel
(http://babelfish.altavista.com/) para traducir sus mensajes para los
miembros de discurso ingleses de la mayoría, pero no voy a hacerle un
requisito. También pienso que sería grande si la mayoría de discurso
inglesa consideraría a nuestros miembros de discurso no-Ingleses tomando
algunos segundos y en un mínimo usando ese programa de BabelFish también.

Las gracias Emilie por traen el asunto para arriba. Pienso que
necesitamos discutirlo.

José

>
>Emilie Garcia
>Port Orchard, WA ----
>
>
>

Arturo,

Thanks. That is great to hear, that I can continue in English, and those from Mexico can continue in Spanish without always having to include a translation. We had a member in Mexico City that wrote in what I call highly-educated proper Spanish, and I understood the gist of it, and he also used a translator machine as a courtesy, and I appreciated that for the parts that were over my head.

When I contact a member privately that I know is Spanish-only speaking, I do try to include a crude little translation of my own, with apologies for my "pocho" Spanish, but I think generally for a group we should be able to e-mail in the language in which we are more comfortable.

I think it is great that people from Mexico joined; we can learn more from them, I think, than they can from us, since they are right there. Lucky are those American members who were born in Mexico or those American born who were able to retain their culture and language. I think their lives are richer for it.

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: arturoramos
To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.com
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 2:23 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translating Postings

Emilie, et al:

By no means is anybody expecting anybody to write their emails in both languages. I imagine there are members that don't mind doing so and might even enjoy doing so (for short messages), but I believe that anyone who joined the group was aware that the majority of postings are in English.

The bilingual drive had more to do with getting the site functions to be bilingual and as I mentioned in an earlier message, there are online translation machines (even if they are bad as Deena points out) to translate messages if people absolutely cannot understand but I would argue against people putting their messages into those machines in order to translate them and post the garble that comes out. While it may be fine to get an idea of what a posting says, the quality is not good enough to be publishing anywhere, including on this site (in my humble opinion). I think people would rather read the English and struggle on their own to translate it.

I imagine there will be more postings in Spanish now that we have more people from Mexico in the group, but I also imagine that a posting that they wish to have the broadest audience will be made in English. I also imagine that postings targeted at our Mexican members might be made in Spanish by those residing in the U.S. and Canada.

There are plenty of bilingual people in the group who are willing to translate a message here or there when absolutely crucial, but otherwise, please keep posting as you always have.

Emilie Garcia wrote:

>Joseph,
>
>I guess when I am responding to a message sent to the group from Mexico where the member has typed it in Spanish, I could try to use the translation program to respond. However, I am so technically challenged; I wouldn't begin to know how to use Babelfish. Can you explain how to use it in conjunction with the Nuestros Ranchos e-mails? I just thought it would be easier to continue as we have, some writing in Spanish since it is easier for them, and some writing in English since it is easier for them. We seem to have been understanding each other so far. I am concerned about those members who don't even understand written Spanish, but I guess the Babelfish will take care of that, although it sounds like a robot talking.
>
you click on the link. . .you copy and paste the english text into the
window. You pick from English to Spanish. You click on Translate. Then
you copy the translated results and paste them below or above your
English version.

joseph

usted chasca encendido el acoplamiento. la copia y pega el texto inglés
en la ventana. Usted escoge de inglés al español. Usted chasca encendido
traduce. Después usted copia los resultados traducidos y los pega debajo
o sobre de su versión inglesa. José

>
>Emilie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joseph Puentes
> To: announce@nuestrosranchos.com
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 1:31 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Spanish/English???: Was-Accents and QuestionMarks
>
>
>
> I know you were addressing this to Arturo but wanted to comment:
>
>
>
> Emilie Garcia wrote:
>
> >Arturo,
> >
> >Also, are we now required to translate our e-mails, etc.?
> >
> No you are not required to translate your emails
>
> Ningún le no requieren traducir sus email
>
> > I am not fluent in Spanish, and I have difficulty reading Spanish sometimes. Also, if Spanish-speaking people from Mexico are accessing and joining this group, isn't it obvious they can read English which is the language for the United States where this group started, even if they prefer to write their e-mails in Spanish?
> >
> I guess you could make an argument in that direction, but I think others
> could forcefully argue in the other as well.
>
> Conjeturo usted podría hacer una discusión en esa dirección, pero yo
> piensa que otras podrían poderosamente discutir en la otra también.
>
> > I don't mind them e-mailing in Spanish if they are more comfortable communicating in that language, but I am more comfortable e-mailing in English and I would prefer to be able to communicate in that language.
> >
> Unless I get an overwhelming amount of feedback on keeping this list in
> English only I'm going to leave the language optional. If you want to
> email in English you are free to. If you want to email in Spanish you
> are free to. I think it would be great if the Spanish speakers used that
> Babel Fish program (http://babelfish.altavista.com/) to translate their
> messages for the majority English speaking members, but I'm not going to
> make it a requirement. I also think that it would be great if the
> English speaking majority would consider our non-English speaking
> members by taking a few seconds and at a minimum using that BabelFish
> program as well.
>
> Thanks Emilie for bring the topic up. . .I think we need to discuss it.
>
> joseph
>
> A menos que consiga una cantidad del abrumador de regeneración en
> mantener esta lista inglés solamente yo vaya a dejar la lengua opcional.
> Si usted desea al email en inglés usted está libre a. Si usted desea al
> email en español usted está libre a. Pienso que sería grande si los
> altavoces españoles utilizaron ese programa de los pescados de Babel
> (http://babelfish.altavista.com/) para traducir sus mensajes para los
> miembros de discurso ingleses de la mayoría, pero no voy a hacerle un
> requisito. También pienso que sería grande si la mayoría de discurso
> inglesa consideraría a nuestros miembros de discurso no-Ingleses tomando
> algunos segundos y en un mínimo usando ese programa de BabelFish también.
>
> Las gracias Emilie por traen el asunto para arriba. Pienso que
> necesitamos discutirlo.
>
> José
>
> >
> >Emilie Garcia
> >Port Orchard, WA ----
> >
> >
> >
>
>

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