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Notario Films Project

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By makas_nc - Posted on 16 April 2006

Dear Nuestros Ranchos researchers,

I just went to the Guadalajara section of the FHL catalog and counted
how many films are in the Notario Section ( México, Jalisco, Guadalajara
- Notarial records
)
There are 1,241 films. As far as I know they are just listed by date and
some give the name of Notario and no information is given as to what
locations they cover. I've understand that these films are a wealth of
information for us, but almost impossible to access since we'd have to
be ordering films and guessing as to which might cover our specific area
or research.

1) Does anyone know if there is a better catalog description for these
films anywhere?

2) Look at the example given below. See the notario named: José María
Anguiano Does anyone know how to research this specific notario? See if
we knew that he only covered Lagos de Moreno and San Juan de los Lagos
then any films by him should identified to those places.

3) I'm thinking of making some of these films into a project. Imagine if
everyone in the group ordered one film. And if all they did was scroll
from beginning to end giving the Area the film covered. Yes I think it
would be nicer if they could pull out the main surname of the person the
record was about, but at least the area being covered. If we got 62
volunteers to do one film each then that would be a whopping 5% of the
films in this Notario Collection. What if a few of us dug into this and
did 3 per year for the next 10 years and we got a few people both inside
and outside the group rolling on this, hey maybe we could have 10-20% of
these films described a little better within our lifetimes so future
generations would be more likely to look at them. Just imagine the 5th
generation of the Nuestros Ranchos group members thinking way way back
to the group as we know it now and thanking us for being willing to
start a work that we might not be able to benefit from. What do you guys
think? I for sure don't want to start something that someone else has
already done, but how do we find if this information is already
available? And if it is already available how do we get the FHL to
associate this info with these specific films?

Joseph Puentes
http://NuestrosRanchos.com
==============================

Title
Registros notariales, 1892-1900

Authors
Guadalajara (Jalisco). Notaría (Main Author)

Notes
Microfilm de manuscritos en el Archivo de Instrumentos Públicos en
Guadalajara.
El escribano de estos protocolos es José María Anguiano.

Subjects
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Notarial records

Format
Manuscript (On Film)

Language
Spanish

Publication
Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmado por la Sociedad Genealógica de Utah, 1959

Physical
2 rollos de microfilm ; 35 mm.

Film Notes
Note - Location [Film]
Protocolos 1892-1893,1896 - VAULT INTL Film [ 269810 Items 3-6 ]
Protocolos 1892-1900 (documentos) - VAULT INTL Film [ 269756 ]

© 2002 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.

Joseph:

I think that the project, as you propose it, is a bit too unwieldy. While I see the value in creating some sort of index for these records, I think the most valuable ones would be the ones from the 16th and 17th centuries when the church records are spotty.

I am thinking back about George Ryskamp's presentation at NARA where he spoke of the general difficulty with using notarial records and he was talking about their use in Spain, where most archives have already created indices.

If anything, perhaps this project should focus on the very early records. I also think that you should coordinate with the archivists in Guadalajara as they may be taking on an indexing project themselves. I know that in Tlaltenango, the municipality has begun such a project with all of the old notarial records they had in their posession which up until recently had been stashed away and were practically unknown to the world.

Joseph,

I believe that before we begin ordering films for this project for each individual, it might be best to request the films for Salt Lake and when some of us go to the conference in October, we can view some these films, identify the content, report back to the group and depending on the findings, determine if the effort is warranted?

What's your thought on this? Just a suggestion..........Alicia

Joseph Puentes wrote:

Dear Nuestros Ranchos researchers,

I just went to the Guadalajara section of the FHL catalog and counted
how many films are in the Notario Section ( México, Jalisco, Guadalajara
- Notarial records
)
There are 1,241 films. As far as I know they are just listed by date and
some give the name of Notario and no information is given as to what
locations they cover. I've understand that these films are a wealth of
information for us, but almost impossible to access since we'd have to
be ordering films and guessing as to which might cover our specific area
or research.

1) Does anyone know if there is a better catalog description for these
films anywhere?

2) Look at the example given below. See the notario named: José María
Anguiano Does anyone know how to research this specific notario? See if
we knew that he only covered Lagos de Moreno and San Juan de los Lagos
then any films by him should identified to those places.

3) I'm thinking of making some of these films into a project. Imagine if
everyone in the group ordered one film. And if all they did was scroll
from beginning to end giving the Area the film covered. Yes I think it
would be nicer if they could pull out the main surname of the person the
record was about, but at least the area being covered. If we got 62
volunteers to do one film each then that would be a whopping 5% of the
films in this Notario Collection. What if a few of us dug into this and
did 3 per year for the next 10 years and we got a few people both inside
and outside the group rolling on this, hey maybe we could have 10-20% of
these films described a little better within our lifetimes so future
generations would be more likely to look at them. Just imagine the 5th
generation of the Nuestros Ranchos group members thinking way way back
to the group as we know it now and thanking us for being willing to
start a work that we might not be able to benefit from. What do you guys
think? I for sure don't want to start something that someone else has
already done, but how do we find if this information is already
available? And if it is already available how do we get the FHL to
associate this info with these specific films?

Joseph Puentes
http://NuestrosRanchos.com
==============================

Title
Registros notariales, 1892-1900

Authors
Guadalajara (Jalisco). Notaría (Main Author)

Notes
Microfilm de manuscritos en el Archivo de Instrumentos Públicos en
Guadalajara.
El escribano de estos protocolos es José María Anguiano.

Subjects
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Notarial records

Format
Manuscript (On Film)

Language
Spanish

Publication
Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmado por la Sociedad Genealógica de Utah, 1959

Physical
2 rollos de microfilm ; 35 mm.

Film Notes
Note - Location [Film]
Protocolos 1892-1893,1896 - VAULT INTL Film [ 269810 Items 3-6 ]
Protocolos 1892-1900 (documentos) - VAULT INTL Film [ 269756 ]

© 2002 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.

arturoramos wrote:

>Joseph:
>
>I think that the project, as you propose it, is a bit too unwieldy. While I see the value in creating some sort of index for these records, I think the most valuable ones would be the ones from the 16th and 17th centuries when the church records are spotty.
>
>I am thinking back about George Ryskamp's presentation at NARA where he spoke of the general difficulty with using notarial records and he was talking about their use in Spain, where most archives have already created indices.
>
>If anything, perhaps this project should focus on the very early records. I also think that you should coordinate with the archivists in Guadalajara as they may be taking on an indexing project themselves.
>
Yes this is a good idea. For all we know this might already be done or
hopefully at least started. thanks for the idea.

José Román. . .puedes ponerme en contacto con alguien en los Archivos de
Guadalajara? No se si conoces alguien alli o nomas en los archivos de la
ciudad de Mexico?

joseph

> I know that in Tlaltenango, the municipality has begun such a project with all of the old notarial records they had in their posession which up until recently had been stashed away and were practically unknown to the world.

great idea. I wasn't wanting to start this right away I just wanted us
to start thinking about this. I wanted ideas about finding out if this
work was already done. Arturos suggestion to check with the Guadalajara
Archives is great so we can see if they have already started this
project. But a quick look when you all are in SLC will give some info on
this as well.

for all I know the individual Notarios are already documented as to
their geographical location of responsibility. Who knows but these films
might all be only one Notario per film. If this unlikely situation were
true it might be as straighforward as just identifying the Notario(s)
for each film. You'd think if it was that easy someone would have
already done it.

Yes I'm not wanting to jump into this. . .just start doing some serious
back ground investigations.

thanks,

joseph

Alicia Carrillo wrote:

>Joseph,
>
> I believe that before we begin ordering films for this project for each individual, it might be best to request the films for Salt Lake and when some of us go to the conference in October, we can view some these films, identify the content, report back to the group and depending on the findings, determine if the effort is warranted?
>
> What's your thought on this? Just a suggestion..........Alicia
>
>Joseph Puentes wrote:
>
>Dear Nuestros Ranchos researchers,
>
>I just went to the Guadalajara section of the FHL catalog and counted
>how many films are in the Notario Section ( México, Jalisco, Guadalajara
>- Notarial records
>)
>There are 1,241 films. As far as I know they are just listed by date and
>some give the name of Notario and no information is given as to what
>locations they cover. I've understand that these films are a wealth of
>information for us, but almost impossible to access since we'd have to
>be ordering films and guessing as to which might cover our specific area
>or research.
>
>1) Does anyone know if there is a better catalog description for these
>films anywhere?
>
>2) Look at the example given below. See the notario named: José María
>Anguiano Does anyone know how to research this specific notario? See if
>we knew that he only covered Lagos de Moreno and San Juan de los Lagos
>then any films by him should identified to those places.
>
>3) I'm thinking of making some of these films into a project. Imagine if
>everyone in the group ordered one film. And if all they did was scroll
>from beginning to end giving the Area the film covered. Yes I think it
>would be nicer if they could pull out the main surname of the person the
>record was about, but at least the area being covered. If we got 62
>volunteers to do one film each then that would be a whopping 5% of the
>films in this Notario Collection. What if a few of us dug into this and
>did 3 per year for the next 10 years and we got a few people both inside
>and outside the group rolling on this, hey maybe we could have 10-20% of
>these films described a little better within our lifetimes so future
>generations would be more likely to look at them. Just imagine the 5th
>generation of the Nuestros Ranchos group members thinking way way back
>to the group as we know it now and thanking us for being willing to
>start a work that we might not be able to benefit from. What do you guys
>think? I for sure don't want to start something that someone else has
>already done, but how do we find if this information is already
>available? And if it is already available how do we get the FHL to
>associate this info with these specific films?
>
>Joseph Puentes
>http://NuestrosRanchos.com
>==============================
>
>Title
>Registros notariales, 1892-1900
>
>Authors
>Guadalajara (Jalisco). Notaría (Main Author)
>
>Notes
>Microfilm de manuscritos en el Archivo de Instrumentos Públicos en
>Guadalajara.
>El escribano de estos protocolos es José María Anguiano.
>
>Subjects
>México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Notarial records
>
>Format
>Manuscript (On Film)
>
>Language
>Spanish
>
>Publication
>Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmado por la Sociedad Genealógica de Utah, 1959
>
>Physical
>2 rollos de microfilm ; 35 mm.
>
>Film Notes
>Note - Location [Film]
>Protocolos 1892-1893,1896 - VAULT INTL Film [ 269810 Items 3-6 ]
>Protocolos 1892-1900 (documentos) - VAULT INTL Film [ 269756 ]
>
>© 2002 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
>
>

The names of all of the Notarios whose protocolos are in the Archivo del Estado de Jalisco is in a document that appears in the Archive's website. By the dates you can probably match up some of the films:

http://archivohistorico.jalisco.gob.mx/pdf/gu%EDa%20de%20notarios.PDF

PS... Only because you asked Joseph... the last message you sent out had a really LONG trail of previous posts. We should really be trimming our messages lest the postings online and the digests end up being a mess.

Arturo Ramos wrote:

>The names of all of the Notarios whose protocolos are in the Archivo del Estado de Jalisco is in a document that appears in the Archive's website. By the dates you can probably match up some of the films:
>
>http://archivohistorico.jalisco.gob.mx/pdf/gu%EDa%20de%20notarios.PDF
>
>PS... Only because you asked Joseph...
>
Yes, very good! Well deserved rebuff. thanks.I'll try harder.

> the last message you sent out had a really LONG trail of previous posts. We should really be trimming our messages lest the postings online and the digests end up being a mess.
>

so do you know what that means? What are protocols and what are the
related documents? For example on page 5 #12 we have a Roman Martin
(1828-1865) who has 31 protocolo and 16 documentos. Wonder what that means?

What a great list. I wish they would have included what areas the
specific Notario was covering. Am I understanding this correctly? I
thought that there were Notario's that covered specific areas. I can't
see one Notario being in charge of the whole state, the burden of the
work would have been overwhelming. but then maybe I don't understand
correctly how the system worked.

I wish there was a good book that explained how the notario system worked.

thanks,

joseph

Do you know if the same list of Notarios exist for Zacatecas? Do you think
the wills and other public documents from Jerez will be in Guadalajara? I
haven't been able to locate them

susana

Susana:

I believe that the notarios that were functioning in Jerez in the early years were mostly based out of Zacatecas, but I know that there is a municipal archive in Jerez that has some notary records as well. I just don't know how far back Jerez had its own notaries and/or served as a place for storage of such notarial records.

I know that Leonardo de la Torre Berumen has transcribed some wills and capellanias of Jerez families. What I don't know is where he got those wills (in Zacatecas or Jerez?)

I think I mentioned earlier that they have just begun organizing the notarial records in Tlaltenango as well.

Hi Joseph:

I was under the impression that ALL the films would be someday digitized.
Are the Notario films being excluded?

You estimate that it would take about 10 years to get approximately 10% to
20% of the films researched. I am just wondering, can these films be
digitized within that time frame? Is there a way to find out? We wouldn't
have to rent them out and researching them would be a breeze from our own
home with our PC's. Just a thought...

John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA.
1gnzlz@verizon.net

yes, something to think about.

not sure what their time frame is for getting the Mexico films done.
We'll have to wait and see. Maybe if someone in the group could look
into this when they are in SLC the next time that would be great. You'd
probably need an inside connection to find that info though. . .if it is
know that is.

thanks,

joseph

John Gonzalez wrote:

>Hi Joseph:
>
>I was under the impression that ALL the films would be someday digitized.
>Are the Notario films being excluded?
>
>You estimate that it would take about 10 years to get approximately 10% to
>20% of the films researched. I am just wondering, can these films be
>digitized within that time frame? Is there a way to find out? We wouldn't
>have to rent them out and researching them would be a breeze from our own
>home with our PC's. Just a thought...
>
>John Gonzalez
>Wildomar, CA.
>1gnzlz@verizon.net
>
>

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