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To add or not to add "DE" in a surname?

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By Visitor - Posted on 16 February 2006

Message from arturoramos2 arturo.ramos2@...

Yolanda:

I guess the answer to your question depends on the software that you are using. I use an online database called The Next Generation that allows you to enter the "DE" or "DE LOS" or "DE LA" in a seperate field from the main surname such that when you search or sort by surname these are not taken into account.

When I import the GEDCOM from this software into PAF, I get the same problem that you do... a bunch of people end up under the letter "D" and I forget to look for them there.

I definitely like entering the name as it appears... for example a lot of contemporary names were once "DE" names such as Rios was "DE LOS RIOS" or "DEL RIO" and Torres was "DE LA TORRE", etc. so I would not enter such names simply as "TORRE".

What software are you using? Other than ROBALCALVA, do you have any "DE" names such as those I mention above?

Message from Yolanda Bobby Perez windrocklili@...

Arturo: I use Family Tree Maker and PAF .  These are the lines I have with DE for our target areas: DE AVILA... DE BUGARIN.... DE CAMPOS... DE CASAS... DE LA GARZA... DE HARO... DE HERRERA... DEL VALLE... DEL REAL... DEL MURO... DE YNIGUES... DE LUNA... DE RIOS If you have any questions on any of these lines let me know. Y MUCHAS GRACIAS POR TU AYUDA.   YOLANDA MEDINA PEREZ

arturoramos2 <arturo.ramos2@...> wrote:
Yolanda:

I guess the
answer to your question depends on the software that you are using.  I use an online database called The Next Generation that allows you to enter the "DE" or "DE LOS" or "DE LA" in a seperate field from the main surname such that when you search or sort by surname these are not taken into account.

When I import the GEDCOM from this software into PAF, I get the same problem that you do... a bunch of people end up under the letter "D" and I forget to look for them there.

I definitely like entering the name as it appears... for example a lot of contemporary names were once "DE" names such as Rios was "DE LOS RIOS" or "DEL RIO" and Torres was "DE LA TORRE", etc. so I would not enter such names simply as "TORRE".

What software are you using?  Other than ROBALCALVA, do you have any "DE" names such as those I mention above?
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Message from latina1955@... latina1955@...

In a message dated 2/16/2006 10:30:44 P.M. Central Standard Time,
windrocklili@... writes:

DE AVILA... DE BUGARIN.... DE CAMPOS... DE CASAS...

DE LA GARZA... DE HARO... DE HERRERA... DEL
VALLE...

DEL REAL... DEL MURO... DE YNIGUES... DE LUNA... DE
RIOS

Yolanda, what area are you looking at??? I have some family surnames
(Bugarin, Herrera, Ynigues, Luna).  If it is Tlaltenango, check out what I
submitted in the files.
Esperanza

Message from Stuart Armstrong stuarta@...

arturoramos2,

Thursday, February 16, 2006, 8:53:26 PM, you wrote:

> Yolanda:

> I guess the answer to your question depends on the software that
> you are using. I use an online database called The Next Generation
> that allows you to enter the "DE" or "DE LOS" or "DE LA" in a
> seperate field from the main surname such that when you search or
> sort by surname these are not taken into account.

> When I import the GEDCOM from this software into PAF, I get the
> same problem that you do... a bunch of people end up under the
> letter "D" and I forget to look for them there.

> I definitely like entering the name as it appears... for example a

Yolanda:
I use The Master Genealogist, which when customized also allows
entering the "pre-surname" in a separate field that isn't considered
when the names are sorted. Thus, de la Cruz and Cruz sort together.
I would normally say that you should enter the names as you find
them, but the trouble is, the same name is often (usually) found in
many variations throughout a person's life, depending on who is
doing the recording. So it makes sense to me to use a standardized
spelling and in your SOURCE information make it clear how the name
actually appeared.

Not only are there problems with pre-surnames like DE or DE LA etc.,
but also with spelling variations -- Jiménez and Ximénez, Váladez
and Báldez, Zamarripa and Samarripa to name a few. The are so many
variations of some names that do NOT normally sort together, that
using a standardized form makes sense. I don't know if your software
allows you to enter more than one name set for a person, but if it
does, entering a standardized spelling in addition to the most usual
characteristic form for that person can be beneficial.

One of the most interesting names in my research is de Lara, often
written just Lara, and originally de la Ara.

Then there is the question of what to do with the mother's maiden
name in those families where it is traditional to include that after
the father's surname. Some software provides fields which can be
customized for that purpose. Or what about the use of "de" names in
those instances where it implies a woman's husband's name. I gotta
say, the many forms that Mexican names take is part of the challenge
that makes Mexican genealogy interesting!

Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuarta@...

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